Friday, August 10, 2012

The Little Schism That Wasn't

Produced by VH Fr. AA
Directed by VH Sr. VLR
Even in the wake of last week's death threat against Golden Dawn Imperator, David Griffin, and his wife, Leslie, the HOGD and its parent order, the Alpha Omega, continue to be misrepresented by the agents of SRIA (Societas Rosicruciana in Anglia), OR+C etc.

Of late there has been a big push towards claiming that there are schisms in HOGD/AO.  The repetition of the same claim does not make it any less false, but SRIA Agent Kalikun McSchism Troll has taken this repetition to a quite ludicrous level.  He has won the SRIA Troll of the Month Award for August 2012, and his FULL argument, minus any SRIA propaganda spin has been extracted and recreated word for word in this animated video...  it gives the SRIA argument in full detail!

55 comments:

  1. That IS the SRIA argument in detail. I literally laughed out loud when I saw this video, because it so perfectly illustrates the ad nauseum repitition and lack of any real substance contained in the SRIA/McGD "schism" declaration.

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  2. Actually these are really funny. I must say I admire a person who can have a sense of humor in such circumstances.

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  3. That one is really funny, SRIA puppets behave like robots.

    Thanks Fratre AA.

    And yes again there is no schism.
    We do real work and we get more and more members every day.
    No belief, no cult, just the Real Truth of the Occult Sciences of the Universe.
    And people know where is the Light which shine in Darkness.
    The Light is in the Hermetic Order Of the Golden Dawn, the Outer Order of the Rosicrician order of the Alpha and Omega and its growing temples.

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  4. Really, ad nauseum? I have been waiting to see this blog go off into a more positive space, but it hasn't happened yet.
    How about some posts that will inspire not condemn?
    And yes I do 'know and understand' the whole story.
    MvdV

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    Replies
    1. Really? You didn't enjoy the interesting practical post about color?

      You didn't enjoy the first parts of the core magick series?

      Delete
    2. I just checked the blogger profile of this "MvdV". Guess what I found? This is another "troll with no name" from Perth, Australia, where SRIA slime trolls Peregrin Wildoak and Bafomets Left Nad live.

      So much for any credibility. Just another Slime Troll as far as I'm concerned!

      Delete
  5. I actually loved the video. It is so amusing and the sad thing is it is also true. Any of you who are against these post should realize it is OK to add some humor to the blog.

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  6. Yes, I would say that the Kalikun trail leads to an Ad Nauseum revisiting of the same topic. Of course this has all too often happened in the past with SRIA McGD talking points delivered over and over and over, with the answers largely ignored. Evidence is right here in the history of this blog!

    I think that there are two effective ways to deal with this propaganda method - and my first choice is IGNORE it after giving a full answer. I would not give a propagandist the airplay after the points have been fully responded to - as it just degenerates into...

    Well... actually into pretty much what was so artfully laid out in the humour of this animation!

    Satire is the second option - and it has worked rather well here. Kalikun's obstinacy really seems to have demanded this kind of treatment, and I loved the video.

    If you know the movie - then this will have cracked you up! ;-)

    BTW I find LOTS of new and positive material being posted on this blog, and I am really very surprised by MvdV's attitude here.

    [Or is he one of those who will "hate" and attack anything positive that IS posted here, just because it is being posted here - there are clearly a number of those in the blog comments!]

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  7. @MvdV, your attempt to accuse us of being "those who condemn" when in point of fact we gave done nothing but defend against the constant, and frankly gross misrepresentations and attacks of SRIA sponsored Trolls - causes me to ask...

    What is your motive in posting here? Is it to share something inspirational with the very much larger audience available through this blog? Or is it to use that audience as a propaganda opportunity?

    We have ourselves been doing much to bring further inspirational material to our audience, but you seem to be ignorant of that fact.

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    Replies
    1. This troll appears neither ignorant nor innocent. This is another anon troll without a name from PErth Australia where PEregrin and the other slime troll live. Is this just a coincidence? I doubt that!

      Delete
  8. The Sisco has posted part two of his SRIA whitewash series.

    It begins:

    "Tolerance abounds in the Golden Dawn.

    Also take into consideration the Masonic Societas Rosicruciana (SRIA, SRICF, SRIC, SRIS, etc.) Although membership requires one to be a Trinitarian Christian man, there is clear instruction and direction towards religious tolerance in their Philosophus degree:"
    ...

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    1. Trinitarian Christian MEN only. No anti-Semiticm there, right? And no anti-Paganism either right? How about mysogyny then?!?!?!?!?

      Delete
    2. How does the Sisco troll know the content of the secret Philosophus ritual?!?!?!?!?

      He is completely independent, of course (not).

      Delete
    3. He is a member of SRIA. Clearly at least Philosophus. Didn't he say that on another blog? I lose track of the Trolls and their histories sometimes!

      Nothing independent about the guy - SRIA through and through.

      Delete
  9. The Sisco continues:

    "Worthy Frater Practicus, I feel assured of the good intentions which animate you, but I warn you that the sub­jects of our studies are more abstruse and elevated than those in which you have already become proficient. As a Frater of this Society of the Rose and Cross you are familiar with the Christian Faith, and have learned to know of a Divine Creator and of Jesus Who is the Christ. You have now to study and compare the various con­ceptions of Divinity which have been held by the great nations of the Ancient World, and the tenets of the most famous philosophers, for in all their systems great moral lessons are to be found. By a serious contemplation of these systems we believe you will come to a more just appreciation of the beauties of the Christian Faith, and be well able to show to the world without that our Rosi­crucian Fraternity not only confers knowledge upon its members, but also Wisdom."

    ...

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  10. The Sisco ends:

    So make no mistake, Rosicrucianism is a peaceful, tolerant spiritual path. Naturally, there will be some who call themselves Rosicrucians, or belong to Rosicrucian organizations, which may not live up to its doctrines and practices of tolerance.

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    1. If SRIA and its minions want to embrace tolerance, then let them quit expelling Jews, Pagans, and Thelemites because of their religion and women because of their gender.

      Anything short of this is just bullshit spin control and more of the same bla bla propaganda!

      Delete
    2. Darcy Kuntz just published another issue of The Ruby Tablet. The whole thing is just an add for SRIA controlled publishing companies and thier books, with a couple of trivial docs from segregationist SRIA archives and from Quator Coronati obviously funelled by snti-Semite, RA Gilbert!

      Delete
    3. I'm surprised that there wasn't more to this. Maybe they are holding their best material back for the much threatened Bumper Book of Debunking! Can't wait for that shot to get fired... these guys just never really made it out of the 19th Century.

      Delete
  11. Grand Slimetroll McWildoak has written another of his thoughtful and informative pieces, this time about Glamour and the risks of dodgy leaders with high charisma rolls...

    It is a shame he used the same picture his Bapho-mad friend (or sock puppet) recently used in attacking GH Frater L.e.S.

    This gives the impression that he remains obsessed with attacking our Imperator, and by extension our entire management structure and organisation.

    He really should be more careful how he illustrates his work. He has yet again tarnished an otherwise useful piece of writing, by allowing this implication to form.

    He underlines this in his list of cult warning signs by referring in the "too good to be true" category, to claims of supposedly ancient Lineages.

    While he is not wrong, and such lies are often used by power trippers, he is very aware that this Order also makes such claims.

    He is also VERY aware of the ORIGINAL defamation authored by McFarrell in King Over the Water...

    In this piece McWildoak comes perilously close to making that defamation, "without naming names", all over again. Good that he stayed on the right side of that line. Very Good.

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    Replies
    1. It sounds like we have a Perth Propaganda Mill spinning for SRIA McGD interests!

      Delete
  12. Sisco writes:

    "Also take into consideration the Masonic Societas Rosicruciana (SRIA, SRICF, SRIC, SRIS, etc.) Although membership requires one to be a Trinitarian Christian man, there is clear instruction and direction towards religious tolerance in their Philosophus degree:"

    I have never seen a finer example of doublespeak. Sisco admits the intolerance inhereint in the SRIA and then states it practices religious tolerance--in the same sentence!

    Enough said there, plenty enough.
    ***

    Yes, Caput, the use by Wildoak of the same obscure photograph that BaphoNad very recently used to misrepresent our Imperator is a clear signal that Wildoak is making a not so veiled accusation that the HOGD/AO is illegitimate--the exact claim made by Farrell in the same deceptive and manipulative manner.

    Again, by use of such propaganda tactics, these SRIA/McGD Recons show that they are sans honor in their nefarious attacks upon our Order.

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  13. Well my criticism is that as someone who is not in any GD order and who dips into the current, it would be nice to see a continued teaching and positive focus here, instead of the same arguments. Move on and above.
    From me, no aggression, no hate, only want to see beyond this negative stuff.
    Interpret that however you wish.
    MvdV

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    1. We have already refuted your talking points that you repeat here again. There is plenty of positive stuff here, despite your broken record like misrepresentation to the contrary. Take Core Magick, Ask the Secret Chiefs, and REvelation - the Secret Chiefs. Take the recent talisman piece.

      This does not mean, however, that we just stand back while trolls like you trash our order with misrepresentation upon misrepresentation.

      No. We refute each and every one of them.

      Want the negativity to go away. Then stop publishing misrepresentations as in your above comment and as in the thousands of others made over the years by Pat Zalewksi, Nick Farrell, Joseph Kalikun, Peregrin Wildoak, and their socks and meat puppets, one of which you certainly appear to be.

      Go ahead make my day. Repeat the same talking points even yet again! This is what EVERYONE in the ENTIRE GD community is sick and tired of after 20 years on Witch Hunt by SRIA trolls agaut inst our order.

      I completely agree with you that all of this negativity coming from the SRIA McGD trolls and their meat and sock puppets is bad for the entire GD tradition.

      How about stopping it so that we have nothing left to refute!

      Sheesh! Is that really so hard to for you to understand?

      Delete
  14. @MvdV If you want even more positive content on these pages I can offer you a killer proposal:

    1) Write some - and if it is worthy then it will be published;

    2) Quit writing negative content, and free us up to focus our energies on writing even more positive content!

    That would work very well. If you can also convince your SRIA buddies to do likewise then the entire community will heave a sigh of relief... I know we will!

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  15. This morning the MvdV troll tried yet AGAIN to post his same talking points here accusing our order of "negativity" for defendinv ourselves against the constant abrrage of misrepresentations from trolls like he and Peregrin Wildoak. This is a talking point that this troll has posted over and over for months now, and I will not allow this blog to be used as a soapbox for xuch nonsense.

    Here is a perfect example of the sort of misrepresentations that this troll argues that we are "negative" if we refute, taken directly from MdvV's blog, published by MdvV and written by - guess who? - Peregrin Wildoakj!

    "the majority of GD Orders do not require any one to subsume their will to heads or leaders. Indeed, that is against the rationale of most GD Orders at all. The few Orders and groups that do are not really part of the community at all. Like the offensive party you describe above, they are not included in the quite community that share, inspire and help each other get on with the work.- Peregrin

    Or course, if we listen to MdvV, our order would be spreading "negativity" if we do not just allow Peregrin to go on republishing such defamatory nonsense over and over across the internet without refutation. The notion that to stand up and defend our reputation from this SRIA Witch Hunt against our order is absurd.

    20 years of this nonsense is more than enough.

    Yes. The negativity should stop. You stop MdvV and tell Peregrin to as well. Until then, we will defend our order's rep[utation from those - like you - who continue publish such negativity non stop for two decades now.

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    1. And MdvV,the PUBLISHER of this Slime Troll slime, is complaining about negativity on blogs?

      Somebody hand the man a mirror. The stench of hypocrisy reeks to high heavens.

      Delete
    2. Peregrin has shown his true colors again here - his Slime Troll goblets spewing all over the place devoid of his usual deceptive camolflauge!

      Delete
  16. Wildoak writes:

    "the majority of GD Orders do not require any one to subsume their will to heads or leaders. Indeed, that is against the rationale of most GD Orders at all."

    The HOGD/AO DOES NOT "require anyone to subsume their will to heads or leaders"!

    More fine misdirection from Wildoak. Here he makes a statement that, TAKEN IN A VACUUM, is a correct statement. When put into context, however, and in light of attendant circumstances,it becomes an accusation of cult like conduct that has no basis in reality.

    On the other hand, Recon McGD leaders threatening their students and adepti with expulsion if they dared to attend the recent Conclave they were invited to, speaks volumes. That affront IS a worrisome red flag of unhealthy control; it genuinely evidences cult like conduct, where the leaders forbid contact with others and any information which validates the HOGD/AO's claim to contact and transmission with and from the same Third Order that had instructed Mathers. Attendance at the Conclave and the information gainded there threatened the careful hold these "spriritual" leaders have on the minds of their members.

    This is why we defend ourselves from these SRIA/McGD Recon backhanded and cowardly attacks on our reputation, function, and lineage. We do it because we must, to preserve the argument for posterity and to enable seekers to realize there truly are wolves in sheep's clothing in this affair and that wise discrimination is necessary.



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  17. Thanks for reposting that bit of classic Slimetroll McWildoak divisiveness - I was forgetting just how over the top in his hatred he can be sometimes. It really is a shame that a writer who has some good things to say continually slips into the gutter like that. Though judging by the company he keeps out there in Perth, maybe I shouldn't be so surprised!

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  18. It appears that McDvd has removed all but a parting post from his blog. He may have gotten lost in Kuntz's publication which, I propose a mandatory disclaimer be added warning that every attempt will be made to pick your pocket. There is not a lot of time for blogging with so much reading and tail chasing to catch up on. Needless to say, I did not "donate" the requested, suggested $5 minimum amount. It would be more appropriated to receive compensation after being exposed to that dressed up cyber rag.

    I am reminded of the basic principle that asserts who I choose to associate with, reflects what I value. I value Truth. Many value paper. Paper in the form of "dusty" manuscripts and/or valueless currency.

    The McGD/SRIA mindset delights in suffering and discord. Consequently, harmony has yet to exist in the presence of "superior" trinitarian christians. Do they not realize that their unremitting attacks and innuendoes are simply veiled cries for help based on what they presently fear the most? We continue to answer your cries because it is one of the many noble things that we get to do.

    Perhaps it is time to put in for a wake up call? However, please make sure that YOU have not turned your ringer off.

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  19. Let's also not forget the Cultism inherent in McFarrell's admission that he is told by his leaders who he may and may not speak to.

    Now just who might those leaders be? He pretends to be independent... but in fact he is not a free agent at all, and he admits it.

    Did he even decide what the tone of his polemical anti-AO, Mathers hatchet job was going to be - or was he "just following orders" in that case too?

    Classic SRIA/OR+C string-pulling!

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  20. "So make no mistake, Rosicrucianism is a peaceful, tolerant spiritual path. Naturally, there will be some who call themselves Rosicrucians, or belong to Rosicrucian organizations, which may not live up to its doctrines and practices of tolerance. "

    McSRIA and Co interpret this sentence as "
    Any member can have any religion or sex that he wants so long as it is white trinitarian christian man."

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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    2. Exactly.

      "Some animals are more equal than other animals" - Animal Farm.

      Delete
  21. "It appears that McDvd has removed all but a parting post from his blog."

    It may be that the McDvD sock puppet is now too burned to be of further value to SIA McGD - after all Perth is not best known for hosting huge numbers of folks with a GD interest.

    Between McWildoak, BaphoMad and McDvD, Peregrin of Perth has been having a wild time with his multiple personalities, but even he must get bored just listening to himself.

    Not to worry - SRIA will soon spin up another puppet to throw at us... maybe the next one will have more interesting things to say.

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  22. In the wake of outing of the incongruence between his words (accusing our order of "negativity" for defending our reputation against the constant barrage of misrepresentatino) and his actions (publishing precisely such misrepresentatin from Peregrin in comments), MvdV has taken down everything from his blog except a parting message.

    I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps he was not a defamation troll like Peregrin. Perhaps Peregrin only used MvdV to attack our order without MvdV understanding what was really happenning.

    This, in any case, is a perfect example of yet another casualty of the Golden Dawn Witch Hunt being waged against our order by Peregrin and his cronies Kalikun, Farrell, etc.

    Of course, the notion that it is somehow "negative" for our order to defend its reputation against such bullying is absurd.

    What is not absurd is the harm being inflicted on the entire Golden Dawn community by 20 years of negativity of non stop Witch Hunt against our order.

    The time has come for these guys to end all of this non-stop negativity once and for all. As a case in point, MvdV just destroyed any credibility he had left. Were he not a part of this negative campaign, then why did he just publish the following anonymous troll comment attacking our order backhandedly yet again with the usual misrepresentations.

    "Please don't put any merit in those that accused you. They are of no consequence and irrelevant. No one takes them seriously."

    Sigh. Do much for MvdV. Clearly, the McGoldenDawn Witch Hunt is still alive and well!

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  23. "Of course, the notion that it is somehow "negative" for our order to defend its reputation against such bullying is absurd."

    I agree with this totally.

    If we set aside our emotions, and step back from the situation (easy for us GD outsiders), the problem becomes clear.

    On one end we have thiefs and oath breakers who are writing and publishing what appear to be upstanding, even establishment grade books. To the outside world, Im sure these publications are impressive and legit information to the masses that never stoop to the low level of forums and blogs........

    On the other we ignore the 33 degrees of Theurgy which marks every real initiate; and instead we throw paper airplanes and spitballs.

    As an outsider who discovered the GD theurgic system on his own; I would have to say that it is awesome. I believe it can change lives for the better. None of the crap, spitballs and paper airplanes do anything but embarrass me. I almost think that is the point: Bury the 33, and kill the GD. I sincerely hope not.

    If you really want to fight the traitor's; WRITE YOUR OWN BOOK EXPOSING THEM.

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  24. Hi Neo,

    I think that EVERYONE, both inside and outside of the Golden Dawn community, is fed up to the gills with the constant negativity.

    Our order has done literally everything we can to end this nonsense. We have tried ignoring all of the defamation and misrepresentation. It just made it worse.

    We invited all of them to sit down and break bread with us. Heck, we even offered to share the advanced magic and teachings of the Second Order from the Secret Chiefs with them.

    And how did they respond? The chose not to come and to go on attacking us instead, escalating the conflict even to books.

    Even worse, like the worst dictators, they threatened any member with expulsion who came to the conclave!

    Despite all of this, I still believe that there is a light at the end of the tunnel and hope for lasting harmony the Golden Dawn community.

    After all, the misrepresentations and defamation attacks on our order are all coming from only as many Golden Dawn "leaders" as I can count on one hand, together with the SRIA and OR+C puppetmasters pulling their strings.

    It has become clear that no matter how many peace initiatives our order launches, no matter how many olive branches we extend to them, there are half a dozen people who are hell bent on the destruction of our order, even if it destroys the reputation of the entire Golden Dawn tradition in the process.

    There is a way to end this madness. The key is the rank and file Golden Dawn members, who are ALL fed up with this nonsense, no matter what GD order they belong to.

    Robert Zink did not listen to his members and look what hapenned to him.

    Would you like peace in the Golden Dawn community?

    The tell your leaders that if they don't quit all the negativity that you will quit them. Tell this to Nick Farrell. Tell this to Pat Zalewski. Tell this to Peregrin Wildoak. Tell this to Morgan Eckstein. Even more importantly, tell this to the Supreme Maga of the SRIA and to the Grand Officers of the OR+C in the Golden Dawn community.

    An order belongs to its members and not to its leaders. Only the rank and file members of the Golden Dawn community can put an end to this insanity once and for all.

    Tell your GD order leaders what you want.

    Demand peace and harmony in the Golden Dawn community NOW - once and for all.

    ReplyDelete
  25. In the era we live, the people are remembering that they hold the power, not the few leaders who's agenda tramples over everything the people hope for. The time has come to stand up as one. To set aside difference and oust those who would snidely backhand any dissent.

    So many have already joined the HOGD/AO in their cries for peace and harmony, many not even being member of the HOGD/AO! All hard working students who strive towards The Great Work are tired of being fodder for a few bad apples. We rise up together, as one solitary community and say NO! We desire peace and harmony in our community! We know there is no flame war, just great misdirection propagated by a few stubborn leaders.

    A new dawn is rising and it can not be stopped. Together we will break bread as one grand community brought together under the halo of the Golden Dawn System. All for one and one for all! For the rose!

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  26. It is true, all that needs happen is for the backhanded attacks on the HOGD/AO to stop, then peace will ensue. McWildoak, Morgan, Zalewski, et al, however just refuse to stand down and give it a rest.

    Morgan continues with his tired drivel and petulant prose, whining about how HIS NOISE and misdirection on his blog and those of his cronies, that has been candidly refuted and defended against over and over here on this blog, now means that seekers will be forced to use discrimination when choosing membership in a GD order--and that this is somehow a bad thing.

    The use of wise discrimination when choosing a spiritual path or group has ALWAYS been a good idea for ANYONE at ALL times.

    This is why we defend against SRIA sponsored McGd Reconstructionists' attacks on traditionalists. It is so that others can know, learn, search, and question.

    These McGd Recons feel they must invalidate our Order to validate their own. This is a gravely mistaken approach, and is at the root of the trouble.

    Reconstructionists, you have what you have and are what you are--Golden Dawn BASED magical orders that have evolved into truly unique entities. You are not invalid. You do not need to feel threatened by our existence. Express yourselves creatively and grow.

    By the same token, allow us our differences and leave us alone.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So say we all.

      Just be YOU, stop obsessing about US.

      Delete
  27. Neo writes:

    "If you really want to fight the traitor's; WRITE YOUR OWN BOOK EXPOSING THEM."

    Neo, that is a fine idea, one worth of great consideration. I would like to add a qualifier to that, though: the book should be written and marketed as a persuasive argument and NOT falsely labeled as "simply history" and a foregone academic, "peer-reviewed" conclusion.

    I would respect an author that was honest about her intent and method of presentation and who did not market the book as something it was not, unlike Farrell and his latest piece of fiction.

    This needs to be done.

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  28. Yes SV - "Descrimination is the First Virtue of the Path" - but some seem to be forgetting that.

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  29. Nemesis you and McGriff (the occult crime dog) should write occult fiction books. You have such a wonderful imagination. Your writings are true Gold.

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  30. I have no doubt that our Imperator and his family truly wish what has been happening were mere fiction, especially the death threat.

    Then they could actually go home.

    Talk about bad taste! The callousness and heartlessness of these McGD trolls knows no bounds.

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  31. Nick Farrell today wrote:

    "You cannot experience state of unity that an adept is supposed to have and claim that another human else must be separate from that. Nor can you claim that your race or religion is superior to another because they are all an expression of the One Thing."

    If you really believe this, Mr. Farrell, then why are you a founder and Grand officer of the segregationist "Order of the Rose and Cross"?

    Moreover, you have been asked over and over for months to explain your prominence in this anti-Pagan and anti-Semitic order.

    Why are you still dodging the tough questions and merely printing diversions that appear hypocritical under the circumstances?

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  32. @Nick, you wrote: "You cannot experience state of unity that an adept is supposed to have and claim that another human else must be separate from that. Nor can you claim that your race or religion is superior to another because they are all an expression of the One Thing."

    Do we take that as a denouncement of SRIA/ORC policy?

    Is this you finally answering the question?

    Maybe there is hope after all.






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  33. If McFarrell held to those principles he would not be the author of so many of the divisions in our community. He is a liar. This is an attempt to whitewash himself, clearly.

    If he does not want to divide one human from another, then he could start by not attempting to divide one part of our community from the other in polemic after polemic full of anti-AO defamation!

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  34. Isn't that a pretty direct rip-off from the HOGD/AO 2012 Manifesto? I know these are not new concepts, but still...

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  35. I cannot help having to side with the A O in all this. Here is a group attempting to crystalise a vibrant link with the tradition and rise above division.

    Whether this initiative succeeds could be a make or break determinent in the evolution of the GD heritage.

    ReplyDelete