Wednesday, August 8, 2012

FRATERNAL DEBATE: "What is the difference between Traditional Golden Dawn and Reconstructionism?"

by Sincerus Renatus

Golden Dawn Reconstructionist, Pat Zalewski, recently wrote:

"I was having a chat today with another GD'er on the Inner Order teachings of some temples which brought up some interesting viewpoints. discussion we talked about the two methods of obtaining GD teachings which essentially is from your own efforts and experience in the GD or bringing in some other orders material en block. It simply depends on the development of the temple or people concerned. If you follow the Mathers pattern of the subgrades (also Portal and 5=6)the elemental rituals then it is unlikely that newer material would explain these ritual levels, especially godforms, diagrams and movement patterns etc.

"However the GD was develop to allow for a growth patterns within the adepts to have the ability to create this material and keep creating it as more inner order members go through the system and add their own input. Now C. has done this, Open Source has done this, Nick has done this and my guys have done this along with many other GD temples. That is the true beauty of the orders teachings in allowing you to create this from 5=6 and up. Its allows different temples to explore different areas. All you have to do is think back 30 years ago in the GD when 5=6 was considered the ultimate and Regardie's books the pinnacle of GD development. With technology being what it is now and the what is likely over the next 30 years much of the material we are doing in individual temples will be leaked to other groups and there will most likely an amalgamation of sorts.

"Now when you bring in other material en block then all of this growth and development that you wish to experience will be bypassed- unless this new material looks at the subgrades from the GD ritual viewpoint and follows the frame work of each level explaining the ritual of previous levels.

"I sincerely wish all those GD temples out there the best of luck and activelyencourage them to start writing their own material for the sub grades and up, including their own rituals above the 5=6."

Golden Dawn Traditionalist, Sincerus Renatus, replied:

These are typical talking points of Pat Zalewski, that the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, and its parent order, the Rosicrucian Order of Alpha Omega somehow use "other Orders'" materials. In reality, our order's advanced teachings area not more "other" than the 2nd Order is to the 1st Order. I know for a fact that the new teachings explain external theurgical formula using internal formulas; there is a direct connection and lineage. Thus what the 3rd Order of the A.O. teaches is the crowning of the so-called "Golden Dawn system of Magic" as published by Regardie, et al.

Pat Zalewski is gravely mistaken if he thinks that it is possible to extract higher teachings which will work magically and alchemically from what may be gathered from the published 1st and 2nd Order material. Some may be extracted for sure but the effects on the inititate is marginal from a pure magical / alchemical / energetic level.

There exist 3rd Order formulae from which the 2nd Order formulae derived. The only possible way to receive these teachings is to become inititate into them. This requires a 3rd Order initiate, or what is commonly referred to as a "secret chief". This is the traditional way, and this is the ONLY possible way as well. Any other ways are but "reconstructed" and leads to a dead end, or a pure intellectual exercise, which has no actual significance in the Great Work of transmutation of Man.


  1. Thou dost floggest the deceased beast of burthen.

  2. Fantastic job SR! A concise rebuttal. Calm and to the point. This is exactly what we need. I know many hard working students out there want to see this kind of conversation instead of troll tactics and fear-mongering.

    I respect Pat's views but they are very misguided in my opinion. Plenty of students from the entire Golden Dawn spectrum have learned this. We even offered these materials for them to see for themselves and to understand this isn't new theorycrafting. This is legitmate, 3rd order, external formulae of theurgical procedures.

    We can disagree without devolving into senselessness. Debate is healthy and I am eager to see how Pat responds. I hope he engages in an honest, calm debate. There is NO flame war. Only comments meant to defile our order. We stand against them in a peaceful and loving, yet protective manner. This order is dear to us and is about spiritual growth. We stand against attacks made on the rose, together, as one, with students across the world.

    For the rose!

    In LVX

  3. Well said S.R. - and let us not forget that this is also the way that Traditional Lineages the world over have always functioned, and continue to promulgate their Mysteria.

    This is not at all some strange Spiritual innovation that suddenly appeared in the Golden Dawn context via the Third Order...

    GD Reconstructionism can build many interesting works of art upon the foundation of the Outer Order, but there is no way to use this creativity to connect up the wires with the actual machine as it has been constructed and continuously operated by the Third Order.

    One can use a machine in ways that it was not designed to be used. One can use a lawn mower to slice cheese, or a jet engine to clear dead leaves, but there remain the actual purposes for these machines - and IMO it is in those contexts that they truly come alive, (...of course I would say that, I am a Traditionalist.)

    Reconstructionists are busy dreaming up new ways to stamp their maker's mark onto the GD machine, but it remains the original GD machine, with a purpose designed into it from the outset.

    This is diversity in action. Perhaps with a little more maturity in the wider GD community BOTH sides can be allowed to Work in peace on their respective projects?

  4. Since we are sheathing the swords and sitting down to discuss this like civil beings, I too see value in the reconstructionist model.

    I disagree that the GD reconstructionists are able to somehow "tap" into the formulae of the same Third Order that Mathers was in touch with and that now is guiding the HOGD/AO, because these formulae are closely guarded and only imparted to those prepared to receive them BY the Third Order.

    This does not mean, however, that the principles underlying the formulae are not discoverable by reconstructionists through their own work. The wheel, afterall, CAN be reinvinted, if that is what one wishes to do.

    That is my understanding, anyway.

  5. If one need a Third Order to be initiated, how these Third Order Boys were initiated? Does that mean it exists a Fourth Order? and so it must existe a Fifth Order to initiate the Fourth boys, and so on to the infinite and beyond..
    That sound doubtfull..

  6. @Anon Lineages build power and clarity over lengthy periods of time. Application and refining of Process slowly distils a Transmission that can ONLY be had by direct Initiation.

    Your logic sounds like it is based in that old classic and faulty form of hierarchical thinking typical of those who want to be leaders. This is not an Ego game, it is more akin to Spiritual ENGINEERING - and is based in Pragmatism...

    What is Transmitted, is what WORKS, not what someone with only a few lifetimes at best of accumulated praxis would LIKE to or hope to see work. This is not about Faith - it is about Science.

    Try applying your argument to other Lineages - like those of Daoism, Vajrayana - Esoteric Buddhism, Tantrism, Apostolic Gnosticism or even some Martial Arts...

    It is not about the Teacher any longer - it is not about their personal power and prestige, it is about the Teachings and the Transmission of the Sacred.

    Westerners have for too long needed to turn East to connect with these things - now balance is returning... we have our very own Lineages with equal scope and Transformative Empowerment!

    Unfortunately the profane will initially see only hierarchy and ego... that is the result of a dirty mirror.