Farrell is now claiming in his blog that Mathers' AO, using traditional attributions, inverted Key 8 with Key 11 in its teachings, and that this was unknown until he stumbled upon this information from an old knowledge lecture, a page of which he recently published.
Farrell then goes on to state that this discovery of his means that groups like the HOGD/AO have been falsely claiming to be traditional AO (because they apparently did not know about what he "discovered.") Farrell then suggests that his books and documents, "the real deal," should be studied by the contemporaneous AO as guides, so that real AO material can be taught instead of GD material disguised as AO.
Farrell's investigative and analytical skills could use some serious improving; Holmes, hes is not. He should not quit his day job. Oh, wait, this is his day job. Well, then, he should just quit.
GH Fra. S.R., in his blog, has very efficiently rebutted Farrell's latest feeble attempt to misguide and misdirect others.
Farrell uncharacteristically unmasks himself here and displays his true motivations underlying his utter disregard for the sanctity of initiatic oaths. He wishes to tear down others in order to promote his reconstructionist style Golden Dawn-based magical order. It is plain to see, and it will be his undoing.
I am surprised by just how completely clueless Farrell appears in this. He usually does a better job of masking his ignorance.
Also the amazing arrogance of it - breathtaking! If he honestly thinks that AO and Traditionalist GD Groups the world over need to study HIS revisionist attacks on Mathers (and on their own Orders) just to get the picture straight on their OWN Lineage Teachings, then he has rather more than a few screws loose! The guy is rattling!
Maybe he profaned this document because it is at least simple enough on he surface, and he hoped not to fall into the trap of being asked to EXPLAIN the real significance of what he publishes... something he is utterly incapable of doing since he has none of the Keys.
This is simply Farrell at his silliest. Yes, he really should get a proper job.
For the benefit of readers wondering what all of the hubub is all about, this is the just another attack on our order by Nick Farrell as part of the 20 year old Witch Hunt against our order coordinated by Farrell's puppet masters.
Obviously Farrell and his masters are DESPERATE to scuttle peace in the Golden Dawn community as they want to keep up their Witch Hunt against the AO.
Farrell wrote:
"There must be more than one "AO group" which claims that it teaches AO material to its members when it is actually teaching Golden Dawn material and putting AO on top of it. With the real deal now out there I guess its chiefs are having to study Nisi and Mathers' Last Secret otherwise they will keep making the same mistake. I did wonder about Papus as a key to some of these changes. Mathers did order his troops to copy out Tarot des Bohémiens and a copy of it was in Nisi and it was clear he respected the man. He might have had enough influence to get Mathers to change his tarot attributions. However as you point out, using the traditional names with the astrological titles makes things a bit of a mess. This is not one of Mathers' better innovations. It looks like I will have to go through the rest of Nisi to see if any "obvious" papers have changes like this one"
Obviously some things will never change. Farrell and his cohorts are desperately trying to stir strife in the Golden Dawn community, ignoring the Pow Wow and instead attacking the AO yet AGAIN!!!
These guys are SOOOOOO transparent these days. They are not fooling anyong any longer.
The Alpha Omega promotes peace in the Golden Dawn community.
Nick Farrell and his cohorts constantly stir strife.
Here are a couple of excerpts of Sincerus REnatus refutation of Farrell's latest Witch Hunt attack.
SR wrote:
"However, again we see the typical example of Mr. Farrell overreacting, or trying to create a hen out of a feather to create yet another “sensation”."
He then goes on to illustrate using AO documents how Farrell is actually full of hot air yet again, then concludes:
"To summarize, the correct Tarot enumeration is No. VIII for Justice and No. XI for Strength, while Teth and Leo is attributed to Strength / Fortitude, and Lamed and Libra to Justice, placing Strength after the Chariot and before the Hermit, and Justice after the Wheel of Fortune and before the Hanged Man in the alphabetic sequence. But to simplify things, and to alleviate the possible confusion of a higher number preceding a lower in the sequence, Strength also appropriated No. VIII and Justice No. XI, both in the G∴D∴, A∴O∴ and S∴M∴. Thus both number attributions are correct!"
I would highly recommend Sincerus Renatus excellent article refuting Farrell's latest Witch Hunt attack from a sholarly perspective at:
The HOGD and the AO will not allow cheap Witch Hunt attacks to scuttle the peace process that began with the International Golden Dawn Peace and Harmony Pow Wow we are hosting beginning March 29 in Pahrump, Nevada.
Everyone in the Golden Dawn community is invited, even the few bad apples that keep stirring strife and thrive on discord.
And yes, even Nick Farrell is invited, although I am sure everyone would appreciate it if he would leave his daggers at home for a change.
Peace requires meaningful dialogue. The sooner those who are acting like bad apples cut the nonsense, the sooner we can get down to the quite serious business of peace and take the debate and dialogue in the GD community in a more positive direction.
Sniping accomplishes nothing. It merely stirs the pot and perpetuates strife.
Meaningful dialogue and debate lays foundations for stable peace.
Re: On Hermetic Secrecy,:" Golden Dawn FAQ: Imperator's Vlog 2
As stated by Frank Salt "SYMBOLS ARE SUBLIMINAL For this reason the Golden Dawn, Guarded its ceremonies and its symbols Under the guise of Secrecy. In practice within the Whare Ra temple, the candidate was told almost nothing about the meaning of any of the ceremonies, regalia, diagrams or symbols. What was given to the candidate as explanations during a ceremony was, in fact, a thin veil. Just enough to satisfy the formal, the rational, the academic mind. To imply and suggest to the candidate that these things (the symbolic and the mystery) were 'reasonable', so that the rational mind would accept them tentatively."
So I have to agree with David on this one, once again.
LVX Jean de Cabalis Cancellarius Whare Atua Temple (an independent & automonous temple of the HOGD/AO)
and also said by Frank Salt "Can you see now why the Order is ‘secret’? Why we lay so much emphasis on Silence? The process is something sacred Holy, something we cannot desecrate with speech, the Voice of He who works in Silence and Whom naught but Silence can express. It is something which can only be lived, not discussed."
Wonderful words by Frank Salt. He and his brethren and sisters of the Whare Ra really understood the significance of hermetic silence, something their modern "heirs" totally lack.
Seriously ? Moaning about 'hermetc secrecy' from a man with wbsites in 8 languages, 3 trademarks, 2 blogs, 1 forum, youtube videos that blew up a temple, and grade sashes for black-tie occasions is just a tad disingenuous.
Do you really have such a fundamental lack of understanding of the nature of hermeticism? How sad. That must be terrible.
I really do think you need to do some homework.
But we are kind. So let me help.
There is the exoteric, and there is the esoteric. There is the obligation to provide access to the Order and its many treasures. And there is the obligation to keep those treasures safe.
Think of it this way: You have an internet site, a facebook page, a number in a phone book. But that does not mean you give the keys to your front door to strangers on the street.
Better now?
Oh and BTW - The Ahathoor temple in France is just fine. This has been discussed at length.
So how about you do a little bit of homework, before you make yourself look ignorant?
This Order is about Peace, about Progression, about Education.
Are you coming to the Pow-Wow? You are most welcome.
Perhaps we can help you with your basic education so that you can have a chance to contribute something useful to the world during your lifetime.
Farrell's psychobabble is nauseating. He must own stock in Dramanine. If he doesn't, it would be wise to purchase some, since he obviously is not interested in peace. Apparently, peace is not monetarily profitable because I am constantly reminded of where Farrell's treasure lies.
Please be kind to Farrell. He needs love and acceptance too, and you can always find good in everyone if you try.
Farrell deserves praise for having created both a book series based on nothing more than trying to trash our order.
He has even created another one man GD order like Zink's based on trying to trash our order and our members.
Oops. Sorry. Farrell's is not a one man order any longer. There is also Dean Wilson. Now there are two of them. One more and they can make a triad of Chiefs without any indians!
Hope to meet you and Dean both at the Pow Wow, Mr Ferrell!
"There's a Schism! There's a Schism! Schism!! A Schism! Schism!!!" Ha ha ha. Poor Farrell.
We know how hard you and your bosses have tried to create trouble inside the Alpha Omega. It really must hurt you to have been such a failure at that.
As for the books? You went too far and let your secret fantasies out where the whole world could read about them. It so hasn't worked out for you, but I for one am big enough to lend a fallen enemy a hand up out of the gutter.
Why not show those string pullers that you are a free man rather than their marionette - come to the Pow Wow. You would be ESPECIALLY warmly received, since you have been one of the chief strife causers for so long... it would be a real milestone on the road to Peace if you came.
Oh my Goddess! Why is it that the McGD reconstructionists have to try to copy everything we do here in the AO. This morning Morgan "Squeaky" Eckstein made his very own Vlog in response to the Golden Dawn FAQ series.
All I can say is that I would not quit your day job, Squeaky. Oh, and yes, Happy Birthday.
In following up on the discussion about the Tarot cards Justice and Strength, Nick Farrell yesterday wrote the following attack on the Rosicrucian Order of Alpha Omega:
"What I find even more surprising is that no one seemed to know this. Even modern reconstructions of the AO who are supposed to have papers from the original Order are claiming that the AO allowed both ideas to work side by side at the same time. But the only paperwork which says what the AO did that has been shown is mine."
"This is the height of presumption and arrogance to assume that no-one knew this in our Order! We do in fact have access to the A∴O∴teachings on this, and have for as long as I can almost remember, but as there are so many modern decks out there, most notable the Raider-Waite (the most common today) and the B.O.T.A. / Paul Foster Case (which I personally prefer over Raider-Waite), not to mention the various G∴D∴ Decks, which all assign Strength to No. VIII and Justice to No. XI, there is no need to emphasise the older numeration any more, besides a brief mention of the historical transposition. However aesthetically appealing, this is why I don’t recommend Crowley’s Thoth Deck as it uses the old placement, not to mention transposing Tzaddi and Heh in the Star and Emperor Keys.
I really don’t understand all the fuss Mr. Farrell and the others are making...."
I can understand what all the fuss is about. Farrell and two other bad apples in the Golden Dawn community DESPERATELY need strife in the Golden Dawn community to create the illusion that there is anyone at all in their one man orders but them.
What is becomming painfully obvious now though is exactly WHO is creating all of the strife in the GD community and WHY.
These guys have attacked our order for 20 years and tried to claim that the reverse is true.
Pat Zalewski, who always seems to back up Nick Farrell's character assassination attempts on MacGregor Mathers, wrote this today regarding the Strenght vs. Justice confusion:
"The GD often has a dollar each way anomolies that pop up from time to time- but to my mind this is not one of them. The changes advocated in the old AO ( as opposed to the modern one) are simply tinkering with the system and not shifting its direction in any major way. To make a change like this simply because Mathers says so with any explanation is not on in my book. The changes to Book T and the colour scales would require a great deal of work without any adequate explanation. I have a healthy respect for book T and it stands as it is as a work genius. For me this is another nail in the coffin of Mathers of the OLD AO deterioration. They never even developed a full set of Tarot trumps, as that terrible 6=5 ritual indicated."
It is obvious from this read that it is totally futile to debate with Zalewski and Farrell as they are not the bit interested in a serious debate and analysis of all arguments. He simply ignores all counter arguments and only repeats his old mantram, hoping it eventually will stick and become a truism, only if it is repeated often and long enough. This is proof that there is no ambition at all from the reconstructionist leaders to engage in any scholarly reasoned discussion at all.
The paradox of retaining the pre-GD numeration in the lectures while using the order according to the Hebrew letter sequence, is because of the then current published Tarot Decks, which placed Justice as No. 8 and Strenght as No. 11. But Farrell & Zalewski, being bent on destroying the reputation of MacGregor Mathers and his AO (so to legitimise the irregularity of the schismatic SM / Whare Ra) will do anything in their power to dig up any "evidence" to back up their biased pre-assumptions.
"Scholarism" mixed with a political agenda = historical revisionism. These guys have really lost all credability.
Typical for Zalewski and Farrel to slander our order by making a false distinction between the so-called "old AO" and "new AO."
The major bone of contention between between these Borg like GD reconstructionists that are trying to assimilate everyone, and Traditionalist Golden Dawn orders like the AO, is that the recons are so stupid as to believe that the Golden Dawn is a long dead order for them to build Frankenstein monsters out of. They also believe that the Secret Chiefs are nothing but the delusions of GD founders, Wescott and Mathers, who Zalekwsi and Farrell believe were madmen.
These short bus Adepts still do not see what fools they are making of themselves by pretending to spiritually lead others in a spiritual school that they believe is a cadaver built by madmen and liars.
They are desperately ridiculous. The Pow Wow has put them in a sticky position, since they evidently don't want Peace... they have been forced into the open. Now the proof is out!
Everyone in the entire community is now getting access to more and more evidence of just who the REAL hate mongers are. There is no place for them to hide from this Light.
If they are wise, they will get with the program and set the ego games aside. We can but continue to invite them...
Everyone else needs to be wrong so that Griffin and the AO can be the single font of knowledge in the world. When they fall pitifully short of being knowledgeable they blame their "enemies".
I love the term that Aletheia coined the other day, "Talking Point Suey." It describes very well the diatribes you and the other hate trolls post, with condensed talking points.
Let's dissect the nonsense you write, shall we? To begin with your statement is so wrong it is actually funny. Our order has NEVER claimed to be the single font of any sort of knowledge.
1. We have over and over compared the spiritual lineages of the Hermetic snd Rosicerucian tradtiions to the lineages of the great spiritual traditions of the East, like Zen and Tibettan Buddhism.
2. We do not even claim to be the sole outer vehicle used by the Secret Chiefs of the Golden Dawn's Third Order. We have said over and over that there are others. So much for your "sole font of knowledge" hate point.
Next you say:
"When they fall pitifully short of being knowledgeable they blame their "enemies"."
These Hate Points are equally absurd. In reality:
1. Our order does not even have any "enemies." We only have an army of hate trolls like yourself spreading attacking our order with bottomless sacks of hate filled misrepresentations like you are doing in this present instance.
2. Regarding your allegation of our "falling short" regarding "being knowledgable, "How would you know?" Were you at the International Conclave of Golden Dawn Adepti where we presented incontrovertible evidence of the new teachings from the Secret Chiefs for the Second Order above 5=6?
Let us recall that the leaders of the McGoldenDawn reconstructionist orders THREATENED THEIR ADEPTS WITH EXPULSION IF THEY ATTENDED OR EXAMINED THIS PROOF.
And yet, you continue with the same old tired "No Proof" talking point. This in itself is proof enough that you are not interested at all in actual knowledge, but only in spreading hatred and stirring strife in the Golden Dawn community.
I invite you to come and see for yourself at the International Golden Dawn Pow Wow in March.
Or wiill the reconstructed Golden Dawn leaders yet AGAIN threaten all of their members with EXPULSION if they come to experience "proof" for themselves.
If you guys are really interested in knowledge, then why are you so terrified of it that you threaten to expell your members if they examine it?
Well said, Nemesis. The Golden Dawn is a spiritual path of LIBERATION. How then, is this compatible with leaders who are so into POWER, DOMINATION, and CONTROL, that they forbid their members to think for themselves.
Every Golden Dawn initiate everywhere deserves the right to examine the teachings coming from the Secret Chiefs and to decide for THEMSELVES whether these teachings are of value or not.
Any leader who FORBIDS GD initiates to think for THEMSELVES is no GD leader at all. Only CULTS threaten, cajole, and discourage independent thought, not Golden Dawn orders.
If a GD leader ever threatens you with expulsion merely for wanting to think for yourself and to examine evidence for advanced teachings for yourself...
...run - do not walk - for the nearest exit, because the group you belong to is not longer a real Golden Dawn order, but has degenerated into extremely dangerous CULT mind control.
Amazing just how much noise these trolls can fit into a few words these days - it really is symptomatic of the Troll Event Horizon... as they are sucked into the Singularity, and crushed by the Infinite Inanity Field of Utter Trolldom, their concepts of time and space distort so much that the messages we are still hearing from them start to carry this "shortened" quality of desperately squeaky droning... in the final moments it will just be one long syllable of despair... stretched thin, a warble from beyond Time.
As for the threats of expulsion and the denials of freedom, even to speak to who the memebers will... the stampede is long overdue. Whoever those "teachers" are, they have no business in Golden Dawn, or any other Spiritual Work.
Our peace efforts won't compromise our standing in our Order's defense. For our Order to fall, all of us, the many members need to fall too; and I can assure this:
Certainly I'm not invincible, but if someone tries to make me fall, I will make them fall mercilessly by my side too.
This is not about the Chief Griffin and the Officers; this is about many of us who belong to this Institution. Why are you so stupid to think we're just a few? You have no idea all the Initiates I have the privilege to meet in person.
I repeat: our efforts for peace, won't make us compromise the defense of ourselves and our Order.
The AO has never claimed to be the exclusive recipient of Third Order teachings. In fact, it has been stated repeatedly that this is not so.
Your inflammatory comment has no substance and is telling of a lack of ability to formulate any discussion other than an undeserved insult.
So, anonymous haters leave valuless comments, and Farrell continues to act as if he is actually making points with his tempest in a teapot over the Key 8/11 confusion he is purposefully creating.
At least now, Farrell's motivations and desire to harm the HOGD/AO are becoming clearly evident through his strange and strained accusations that the HOGD/AO is a reconstructionist group.
For those interested, an explanation of Farrell's latest foolishness can be found here:
"I guess it appears to me that Mathers went creative for a while, but not for long, if Slater and Case's AO are anything to go by."
And this guy pretends to be a historian? Pat Z. constantly ignores all criticism of his silly proclamations and just repeats them over and over absurdly without any evidence at all to support his bizarre opinions.
For the benefit of new readers, this attack on Mathers has been refuted over and over already.
The reason that Mathers productivity terminates is that he was expelled by the Secret Chiefs of the Third Order.
Of course, Zalewksi has never addressed this, because he is a pseudo-scholar, armchair resercher pretending to be both academic and magician.
Zalewksi breaks every rule of academia and thinks "peer review" means a slap on the back from Nick Farrell or one of his other cronies.
This is very old and very boring news. He has just continued saying the same old thing... like the broken record that he is. The guy already holds several "Troll of the Month" Awards for the most often repeated anti-AO talking points on the Web, and he evidently wishes to keep his batting averages up! He must even be boring himself to death by now, and his students must have been snoring for years! Will he ever just give it a rest?!!
This is old news. The major problem in the GD community are leaders of different orders talking past one another instead of with one another. Therefore, the discussion never moves forward. Instead the GD reconstructionist camp just keeps repeating the same things over and over ad nauseam and traditional Golden Dawn orders like ours in reply keep repeating the same refutations over and over as well.
Like I said before, this keeps the dialogue from ever moving forward.
This is one reason for our Pow Wow initiative and why the Pow Wow is so important. The idea is to get Golden Dawn leaders from all across our community together to share food, ritual, and discussion. Attendees can hear many divergent points of view and the discussion can finally advance instead of acting like a broken record.
So far, no leader of any GD reconstructionist order has shown any willingness to attend, however. At this juncture, it seems that the recons remain entrenched in the desire to keep stirring strife in the Golden Dawn community attacking the AO Witch Hunt style as they have done for the last 20 years.
Our invitation to them is sincere. The whole world is watching and so far, it is becoming embarrassingly obvious just who it is actually responsible for two decades of strife in the GD community.
On a positive note, there have been many rank and file members of the reconstructionist GD orders who have indicated a desire to attend, but they remain afraid of possible disciplinary action if they do.
There are still many months before Pow Wow to find a solution for this.
I am still optimistic that the leaders of the GD Reconstructionist orders will come to their senses, let go of the need for constant strife and tension, and instead will join with us in promoting peace and harmony in the ENTIRE Golden Dawn community, and not just a pseudo illusion of peace between only the reconstructionist camp as they have been trying to sell the public lately.
Good job V.H. soror V.L and V.H. Frater A.A.
ReplyDeleteMay ye have a good equinox ceremony..
Likewise! Thank you.
DeleteFarrell is now claiming in his blog that Mathers' AO, using traditional attributions, inverted Key 8 with Key 11 in its teachings, and that this was unknown until he stumbled upon this information from an old knowledge lecture, a page of which he recently published.
ReplyDeleteFarrell then goes on to state that this discovery of his means that groups like the HOGD/AO have been falsely claiming to be traditional AO (because they apparently did not know about what he "discovered.") Farrell then suggests that his books and documents, "the real deal," should be studied by the contemporaneous AO as guides, so that real AO material can be taught instead of GD material disguised as AO.
Farrell's investigative and analytical skills could use some serious improving; Holmes, hes is not. He should not quit his day job. Oh, wait, this is his day job. Well, then, he should just quit.
GH Fra. S.R., in his blog, has very efficiently rebutted Farrell's latest feeble attempt to misguide and misdirect others.
Farrell uncharacteristically unmasks himself here and displays his true motivations underlying his utter disregard for the sanctity of initiatic oaths. He wishes to tear down others in order to promote his reconstructionist style Golden Dawn-based magical order. It is plain to see, and it will be his undoing.
I have addressed this latest debate on my blog. Please see at:
Deletehttp://gyllenegryningen.blogspot.se/2012/08/the-confusion-of-strenght-vs-justice.html
I have also updated that post with an addendum addressing late developements.
S:.R:.
I am surprised by just how completely clueless Farrell appears in this. He usually does a better job of masking his ignorance.
ReplyDeleteAlso the amazing arrogance of it - breathtaking! If he honestly thinks that AO and Traditionalist GD Groups the world over need to study HIS revisionist attacks on Mathers (and on their own Orders) just to get the picture straight on their OWN Lineage Teachings, then he has rather more than a few screws loose! The guy is rattling!
Maybe he profaned this document because it is at least simple enough on he surface, and he hoped not to fall into the trap of being asked to EXPLAIN the real significance of what he publishes... something he is utterly incapable of doing since he has none of the Keys.
This is simply Farrell at his silliest. Yes, he really should get a proper job.
For the benefit of readers wondering what all of the hubub is all about, this is the just another attack on our order by Nick Farrell as part of the 20 year old Witch Hunt against our order coordinated by Farrell's puppet masters.
ReplyDeleteObviously Farrell and his masters are DESPERATE to scuttle peace in the Golden Dawn community as they want to keep up their Witch Hunt against the AO.
Farrell wrote:
"There must be more than one "AO group" which claims that it teaches AO material to its members when it is actually teaching Golden Dawn material and putting AO on top of it. With the real deal now out there I guess its chiefs are having to study Nisi and Mathers' Last Secret otherwise they will keep making the same mistake.
I did wonder about Papus as a key to some of these changes. Mathers did order his troops to copy out Tarot des Bohémiens and a copy of it was in Nisi and it was clear he respected the man. He might have had enough influence to get Mathers to change his tarot attributions. However as you point out, using the traditional names with the astrological titles makes things a bit of a mess. This is not one of Mathers' better innovations. It looks like I will have to go through the rest of Nisi to see if any "obvious" papers have changes like this one"
Obviously some things will never change. Farrell and his cohorts are desperately trying to stir strife in the Golden Dawn community, ignoring the Pow Wow and instead attacking the AO yet AGAIN!!!
ReplyDeleteThese guys are SOOOOOO transparent these days. They are not fooling anyong any longer.
The Alpha Omega promotes peace in the Golden Dawn community.
Nick Farrell and his cohorts constantly stir strife.
Simple, really!
Here are a couple of excerpts of Sincerus REnatus refutation of Farrell's latest Witch Hunt attack.
ReplyDeleteSR wrote:
"However, again we see the typical example of Mr. Farrell overreacting, or trying to create a hen out of a feather to create yet another “sensation”."
He then goes on to illustrate using AO documents how Farrell is actually full of hot air yet again, then concludes:
"To summarize, the correct Tarot enumeration is No. VIII for Justice and No. XI for Strength, while Teth and Leo is attributed to Strength / Fortitude, and Lamed and Libra to Justice, placing Strength after the Chariot and before the Hermit, and Justice after the Wheel of Fortune and before the Hanged Man in the alphabetic sequence. But to simplify things, and to alleviate the possible confusion of a higher number preceding a lower in the sequence, Strength also appropriated No. VIII and Justice No. XI, both in the G∴D∴, A∴O∴ and S∴M∴. Thus both number attributions are correct!"
I would highly recommend Sincerus Renatus excellent article refuting Farrell's latest Witch Hunt attack from a sholarly perspective at:
http://gyllenegryningen.blogspot.se/2012/08/the-confusion-of-strenght-vs-justice.html
The HOGD and the AO will not allow cheap Witch Hunt attacks to scuttle the peace process that began with the International Golden Dawn Peace and Harmony Pow Wow we are hosting beginning March 29 in Pahrump, Nevada.
ReplyDeleteEveryone in the Golden Dawn community is invited, even the few bad apples that keep stirring strife and thrive on discord.
And yes, even Nick Farrell is invited, although I am sure everyone would appreciate it if he would leave his daggers at home for a change.
Peace requires meaningful dialogue. The sooner those who are acting like bad apples cut the nonsense, the sooner we can get down to the quite serious business of peace and take the debate and dialogue in the GD community in a more positive direction.
Sniping accomplishes nothing. It merely stirs the pot and perpetuates strife.
Meaningful dialogue and debate lays foundations for stable peace.
Re: On Hermetic Secrecy,:" Golden Dawn FAQ: Imperator's Vlog 2
ReplyDeleteAs stated by Frank Salt "SYMBOLS ARE SUBLIMINAL
For this reason the Golden Dawn, Guarded its ceremonies and its symbols Under the guise of Secrecy. In practice within the Whare Ra temple, the candidate was told almost nothing about the meaning of any of the ceremonies, regalia, diagrams or symbols. What was given to the candidate as explanations during a ceremony was, in fact, a thin veil. Just enough to satisfy the formal, the rational, the academic mind. To imply and suggest to the candidate that these things (the symbolic and the mystery) were 'reasonable', so that the rational mind would accept them tentatively."
So I have to agree with David on this one, once again.
LVX
Jean de Cabalis
Cancellarius Whare Atua Temple
(an independent & automonous temple of
the HOGD/AO)
and also said by Frank Salt "Can you see now why the Order is ‘secret’? Why we lay so much emphasis on Silence? The process is something sacred Holy, something we cannot desecrate with speech, the Voice of He who works in Silence and Whom naught but Silence can express. It is something which can only be lived, not discussed."
DeleteLVX
Jean de Cabalis
Wonderful words by Frank Salt. He and his brethren and sisters of the Whare Ra really understood the significance of hermetic silence, something their modern "heirs" totally lack.
DeleteS:.R:.
Seriously ?
ReplyDeleteMoaning about 'hermetc secrecy' from a man with wbsites in
8 languages, 3 trademarks, 2 blogs, 1 forum, youtube videos that blew up a temple, and grade sashes for black-tie occasions is just a tad disingenuous.
@ Anon Hate Troll
DeleteLook, Dude. Everyone knows who you are and what order you lead despite your hiding like a coward behind anonymity.
First off, we have tried until we are blue in the face to explain to you the actual meaning of Hermetic Secrecy.
Clearly HS does not mean that a traditional GD order should not have an internet presence.
But clearly, short bus Hate Trolls like you will never understand what the Golden Dawn is REALLY all about.
Loved your nonsense about our YouTube vids exploding a temple. What a creative way of repeating your "schism" talking point.
For all of the juicy details about this exciting gossip topic, don't miss
"The Little Schism That Wasn't" at:
http://hermetic-golden-dawn.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-little-schism-that-wasnt.html
Wow.
DeleteDo you really have such a fundamental lack of understanding of the nature of hermeticism? How sad. That must be terrible.
I really do think you need to do some homework.
But we are kind. So let me help.
There is the exoteric, and there is the esoteric.
There is the obligation to provide access to the Order and its many treasures.
And there is the obligation to keep those treasures safe.
Think of it this way:
You have an internet site, a facebook page, a number in a phone book.
But that does not mean you give the keys to your front door to strangers on the street.
Better now?
Oh and BTW - The Ahathoor temple in France is just fine. This has been discussed at length.
So how about you do a little bit of homework, before you make yourself look ignorant?
This Order is about Peace, about Progression, about Education.
Are you coming to the Pow-Wow? You are most welcome.
Perhaps we can help you with your basic education so that you can have a chance to contribute something useful to the world during your lifetime.
Farrell's psychobabble is nauseating. He must own stock in Dramanine. If he doesn't, it would be wise to purchase some, since he obviously is not interested in peace. Apparently, peace is not monetarily profitable because I am constantly reminded of where Farrell's treasure lies.
ReplyDelete@ NTIKT
ReplyDeletePlease be kind to Farrell. He needs love and acceptance too, and you can always find good in everyone if you try.
Farrell deserves praise for having created both a book series based on nothing more than trying to trash our order.
He has even created another one man GD order like Zink's based on trying to trash our order and our members.
Oops. Sorry. Farrell's is not a one man order any longer. There is also Dean Wilson. Now there are two of them. One more and they can make a triad of Chiefs without any indians!
Hope to meet you and Dean both at the Pow Wow, Mr Ferrell!
"There's a Schism! There's a Schism! Schism!! A Schism! Schism!!!" Ha ha ha. Poor Farrell.
ReplyDeleteWe know how hard you and your bosses have tried to create trouble inside the Alpha Omega. It really must hurt you to have been such a failure at that.
As for the books? You went too far and let your secret fantasies out where the whole world could read about them. It so hasn't worked out for you, but I for one am big enough to lend a fallen enemy a hand up out of the gutter.
Why not show those string pullers that you are a free man rather than their marionette - come to the Pow Wow. You would be ESPECIALLY warmly received, since you have been one of the chief strife causers for so long... it would be a real milestone on the road to Peace if you came.
Show some real Leadership!
Oh my Goddess! Why is it that the McGD reconstructionists have to try to copy everything we do here in the AO. This morning Morgan "Squeaky" Eckstein made his very own Vlog in response to the Golden Dawn FAQ series.
ReplyDeleteAll I can say is that I would not quit your day job, Squeaky. Oh, and yes, Happy Birthday.
Nemesis - be nice. We would not want Morgan to feel unwelcome at the Pow Wow.
DeleteIn following up on the discussion about the Tarot cards Justice and Strength, Nick Farrell yesterday wrote the following attack on the Rosicrucian Order of Alpha Omega:
ReplyDelete"What I find even more surprising is that no one seemed to know this. Even modern reconstructions of the AO who are supposed to have papers from the original Order are claiming that the AO allowed both ideas to work side by side at the same time. But the only paperwork which says what the AO did that has been shown is mine."
Sincerus Renatus rebutted Farrell's latest attack, writing:
ReplyDelete"This is the height of presumption and arrogance to assume that no-one knew this in our Order! We do in fact have access to the A∴O∴teachings on this, and have for as long as I can almost remember, but as there are so many modern decks out there, most notable the Raider-Waite (the most common today) and the B.O.T.A. / Paul Foster Case (which I personally prefer over Raider-Waite), not to mention the various G∴D∴ Decks, which all assign Strength to No. VIII and Justice to No. XI, there is no need to emphasise the older numeration any more, besides a brief mention of the historical transposition. However aesthetically appealing, this is why I don’t recommend Crowley’s Thoth Deck as it uses the old placement, not to mention transposing Tzaddi and Heh in the Star and Emperor Keys.
I really don’t understand all the fuss Mr. Farrell and the others are making...."
I can understand what all the fuss is about. Farrell and two other bad apples in the Golden Dawn community DESPERATELY need strife in the Golden Dawn community to create the illusion that there is anyone at all in their one man orders but them.
ReplyDeleteWhat is becomming painfully obvious now though is exactly WHO is creating all of the strife in the GD community and WHY.
These guys have attacked our order for 20 years and tried to claim that the reverse is true.
They are sooooo busted now.
Everyone sees through their sick games.
All of this is so unnecessary. It is a simple matter to debate factual points of the Golden Dawn in a FRATERNAL manner.
ReplyDeleteThere is no need to continue to inject hatred and sideways attacks on our order into the discussion, as Nick has done AGAIN here.
The time has come to put hatred aside and to debate with civility.
NOTHING should be allowed to derail the peace process presently underway in the Golden Dawn community.
I am shocked that Mr. Farrell apparently remains stubbornly unwilling to even try to maintain a fraternal and civil tone.
It is becomming quite obvious who is deeply inversted in stirring strife in our community, no matter what the cost.
Pat Zalewski, who always seems to back up Nick Farrell's character assassination attempts on MacGregor Mathers, wrote this today regarding the Strenght vs. Justice confusion:
Delete"The GD often has a dollar each way anomolies that pop up from time to time- but to my mind this is not one of them. The changes advocated in the old AO ( as
opposed to the modern one) are simply tinkering with the system and not shifting its direction in any major way. To make a change like this simply because Mathers says so with any explanation is not on in my book. The changes to Book T and the colour scales would require a great deal of work without any adequate explanation. I have a healthy respect for book T and it stands as it is as a work genius. For me this is another nail in the coffin of Mathers of the OLD AO deterioration. They never even developed a full set of Tarot trumps, as that terrible 6=5 ritual indicated."
It is obvious from this read that it is totally futile to debate with Zalewski and Farrell as they are not the bit interested in a serious debate and analysis of all arguments. He simply ignores all counter arguments and only repeats his old mantram, hoping it eventually will stick and become a truism, only if it is repeated often and long enough. This is proof that there is no ambition at all from the reconstructionist leaders to engage in any scholarly reasoned discussion at all.
The paradox of retaining the pre-GD numeration in the lectures while using the order according to the Hebrew letter sequence, is because of the then current published Tarot Decks, which placed Justice as No. 8 and Strenght as No. 11. But Farrell & Zalewski, being bent on destroying the reputation of MacGregor Mathers and his AO (so to legitimise the irregularity of the schismatic SM / Whare Ra) will do anything in their power to dig up any "evidence" to back up their biased pre-assumptions.
"Scholarism" mixed with a political agenda = historical revisionism. These guys have really lost all credability.
S:.R:.
Typical for Zalewski and Farrel to slander our order by making a false distinction between the so-called "old AO" and "new AO."
DeleteThe major bone of contention between between these Borg like GD reconstructionists that are trying to assimilate everyone, and Traditionalist Golden Dawn orders like the AO, is that the recons are so stupid as to believe that the Golden Dawn is a long dead order for them to build Frankenstein monsters out of. They also believe that the Secret Chiefs are nothing but the delusions of GD founders, Wescott and Mathers, who Zalekwsi and Farrell believe were madmen.
These short bus Adepts still do not see what fools they are making of themselves by pretending to spiritually lead others in a spiritual school that they believe is a cadaver built by madmen and liars.
These guys are completely ridiculous.
They are desperately ridiculous. The Pow Wow has put them in a sticky position, since they evidently don't want Peace... they have been forced into the open. Now the proof is out!
DeleteEveryone in the entire community is now getting access to more and more evidence of just who the REAL hate mongers are. There is no place for them to hide from this Light.
If they are wise, they will get with the program and set the ego games aside. We can but continue to invite them...
Everyone else needs to be wrong so that Griffin and the AO can be the single font of knowledge in the world. When they fall pitifully short of being knowledgeable they blame their "enemies".
ReplyDelete@ Anon Hate Troll
DeleteI love the term that Aletheia coined the other day, "Talking Point Suey." It describes very well the diatribes you and the other hate trolls post, with condensed talking points.
Let's dissect the nonsense you write, shall we? To begin with your statement is so wrong it is actually funny. Our order has NEVER claimed to be the single font of any sort of knowledge.
1. We have over and over compared the spiritual lineages of the Hermetic snd Rosicerucian tradtiions to the lineages of the great spiritual traditions of the East, like Zen and Tibettan Buddhism.
2. We do not even claim to be the sole outer vehicle used by the Secret Chiefs of the Golden Dawn's Third Order. We have said over and over that there are others. So much for your "sole font of knowledge" hate point.
Next you say:
"When they fall pitifully short of being knowledgeable they blame their "enemies"."
These Hate Points are equally absurd. In reality:
1. Our order does not even have any "enemies." We only have an army of hate trolls like yourself spreading attacking our order with bottomless sacks of hate filled misrepresentations like you are doing in this present instance.
2. Regarding your allegation of our "falling short" regarding "being knowledgable, "How would you know?" Were you at the International Conclave of Golden Dawn Adepti where we presented incontrovertible evidence of the new teachings from the Secret Chiefs for the Second Order above 5=6?
Let us recall that the leaders of the McGoldenDawn reconstructionist orders THREATENED THEIR ADEPTS WITH EXPULSION IF THEY ATTENDED OR EXAMINED THIS PROOF.
And yet, you continue with the same old tired "No Proof" talking point. This in itself is proof enough that you are not interested at all in actual knowledge, but only in spreading hatred and stirring strife in the Golden Dawn community.
I invite you to come and see for yourself at the International Golden Dawn Pow Wow in March.
Or wiill the reconstructed Golden Dawn leaders yet AGAIN threaten all of their members with EXPULSION if they come to experience "proof" for themselves.
If you guys are really interested in knowledge, then why are you so terrified of it that you threaten to expell your members if they examine it?
Well said, Nemesis. The Golden Dawn is a spiritual path of LIBERATION. How then, is this compatible with leaders who are so into POWER, DOMINATION, and CONTROL, that they forbid their members to think for themselves.
DeleteEvery Golden Dawn initiate everywhere deserves the right to examine the teachings coming from the Secret Chiefs and to decide for THEMSELVES whether these teachings are of value or not.
Any leader who FORBIDS GD initiates to think for THEMSELVES is no GD leader at all. Only CULTS threaten, cajole, and discourage independent thought, not Golden Dawn orders.
If a GD leader ever threatens you with expulsion merely for wanting to think for yourself and to examine evidence for advanced teachings for yourself...
...run - do not walk - for the nearest exit, because the group you belong to is not longer a real Golden Dawn order, but has degenerated into extremely dangerous CULT mind control.
"Pitifully short of being knowledgeable.."
DeleteI suspect you won't post here to elucidate, will you?
No, didn't think so.
Oh well. Silly troll.
Amazing just how much noise these trolls can fit into a few words these days - it really is symptomatic of the Troll Event Horizon... as they are sucked into the Singularity, and crushed by the Infinite Inanity Field of Utter Trolldom, their concepts of time and space distort so much that the messages we are still hearing from them start to carry this "shortened" quality of desperately squeaky droning... in the final moments it will just be one long syllable of despair... stretched thin, a warble from beyond Time.
DeleteAs for the threats of expulsion and the denials of freedom, even to speak to who the memebers will... the stampede is long overdue. Whoever those "teachers" are, they have no business in Golden Dawn, or any other Spiritual Work.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteDear stupid Troll:
ReplyDeleteOur peace efforts won't compromise our standing in our Order's defense.
For our Order to fall, all of us, the many members need to fall too; and I can assure this:
Certainly I'm not invincible, but if someone tries to make me fall, I will make them fall mercilessly by my side too.
This is not about the Chief Griffin and the Officers; this is about many of us who belong to this Institution. Why are you so stupid to think we're just a few? You have no idea all the Initiates I have the privilege to meet in person.
I repeat: our efforts for peace, won't make us compromise the defense of ourselves and our Order.
@anonymous and the "font of knowledge" comment:
ReplyDeleteThe AO has never claimed to be the exclusive recipient of Third Order teachings. In fact, it has been stated repeatedly that this is not so.
Your inflammatory comment has no substance and is telling of a lack of ability to formulate any discussion other than an undeserved insult.
So, anonymous haters leave valuless comments, and Farrell continues to act as if he is actually making points with his tempest in a teapot over the Key 8/11 confusion he is purposefully creating.
At least now, Farrell's motivations and desire to harm the HOGD/AO are becoming clearly evident through his strange and strained accusations that the HOGD/AO is a reconstructionist group.
For those interested, an explanation of Farrell's latest foolishness can be found here:
http://gyllenegryningen.blogspot.se/2012/08/the-confusion-of-strenght-vs-justice.html
Pat Zalewksi wrote:
Delete"I guess it appears to me that Mathers went creative for a while, but not for long, if Slater and Case's AO are anything to go by."
And this guy pretends to be a historian? Pat Z. constantly ignores all criticism of his silly proclamations and just repeats them over and over absurdly without any evidence at all to support his bizarre opinions.
For the benefit of new readers, this attack on Mathers has been refuted over and over already.
The reason that Mathers productivity terminates is that he was expelled by the Secret Chiefs of the Third Order.
Of course, Zalewksi has never addressed this, because he is a pseudo-scholar, armchair resercher pretending to be both academic and magician.
Zalewksi breaks every rule of academia and thinks "peer review" means a slap on the back from Nick Farrell or one of his other cronies.
This is very old and very boring news. He has just continued saying the same old thing... like the broken record that he is. The guy already holds several "Troll of the Month" Awards for the most often repeated anti-AO talking points on the Web, and he evidently wishes to keep his batting averages up! He must even be boring himself to death by now, and his students must have been snoring for years! Will he ever just give it a rest?!!
Delete@ Nemesis
ReplyDeleteThis is old news. The major problem in the GD community are leaders of different orders talking past one another instead of with one another. Therefore, the discussion never moves forward. Instead the GD reconstructionist camp just keeps repeating the same things over and over ad nauseam and traditional Golden Dawn orders like ours in reply keep repeating the same refutations over and over as well.
Like I said before, this keeps the dialogue from ever moving forward.
This is one reason for our Pow Wow initiative and why the Pow Wow is so important. The idea is to get Golden Dawn leaders from all across our community together to share food, ritual, and discussion. Attendees can hear many divergent points of view and the discussion can finally advance instead of acting like a broken record.
So far, no leader of any GD reconstructionist order has shown any willingness to attend, however. At this juncture, it seems that the recons remain entrenched in the desire to keep stirring strife in the Golden Dawn community attacking the AO Witch Hunt style as they have done for the last 20 years.
Our invitation to them is sincere. The whole world is watching and so far, it is becoming embarrassingly obvious just who it is actually responsible for two decades of strife in the GD community.
On a positive note, there have been many rank and file members of the reconstructionist GD orders who have indicated a desire to attend, but they remain afraid of possible disciplinary action if they do.
There are still many months before Pow Wow to find a solution for this.
I am still optimistic that the leaders of the GD Reconstructionist orders will come to their senses, let go of the need for constant strife and tension, and instead will join with us in promoting peace and harmony in the ENTIRE Golden Dawn community, and not just a pseudo illusion of peace between only the reconstructionist camp as they have been trying to sell the public lately.