tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post2172942851966182886..comments2023-09-01T10:08:28.177-07:00Comments on The Golden Dawn Blog: FRATERNAL DEBATE: "What is the difference between Traditional Golden Dawn and Reconstructionism?"Imperator David Griffinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-73598082322050540012012-08-09T08:23:24.678-07:002012-08-09T08:23:24.678-07:00@Anon Lineages build power and clarity over lengt...@Anon Lineages build power and clarity over lengthy periods of time. Application and refining of Process slowly distils a Transmission that can ONLY be had by direct Initiation.<br /><br />Your logic sounds like it is based in that old classic and faulty form of hierarchical thinking typical of those who want to be leaders. This is not an Ego game, it is more akin to Spiritual ENGINEERING - and is based in Pragmatism...<br /><br />What is Transmitted, is what WORKS, not what someone with only a few lifetimes at best of accumulated praxis would LIKE to or hope to see work. This is not about Faith - it is about Science.<br /><br />Try applying your argument to other Lineages - like those of Daoism, Vajrayana - Esoteric Buddhism, Tantrism, Apostolic Gnosticism or even some Martial Arts...<br /><br />It is not about the Teacher any longer - it is not about their personal power and prestige, it is about the Teachings and the Transmission of the Sacred.<br /><br />Westerners have for too long needed to turn East to connect with these things - now balance is returning... we have our very own Lineages with equal scope and Transformative Empowerment! <br /><br />Unfortunately the profane will initially see only hierarchy and ego... that is the result of a dirty mirror.Caput Mortuumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-54948985574029321882012-08-09T04:23:03.191-07:002012-08-09T04:23:03.191-07:00If one need a Third Order to be initiated, how the...If one need a Third Order to be initiated, how these Third Order Boys were initiated? Does that mean it exists a Fourth Order? and so it must existe a Fifth Order to initiate the Fourth boys, and so on to the infinite and beyond..<br />That sound doubtfull..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-33569265677775671322012-08-08T16:31:05.509-07:002012-08-08T16:31:05.509-07:00Since we are sheathing the swords and sitting down...Since we are sheathing the swords and sitting down to discuss this like civil beings, I too see value in the reconstructionist model.<br /><br />I disagree that the GD reconstructionists are able to somehow "tap" into the formulae of the same Third Order that Mathers was in touch with and that now is guiding the HOGD/AO, because these formulae are closely guarded and only imparted to those prepared to receive them BY the Third Order.<br /><br />This does not mean, however, that the principles underlying the formulae are not discoverable by reconstructionists through their own work. The wheel, afterall, CAN be reinvinted, if that is what one wishes to do. <br /><br />That is my understanding, anyway.S.V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14485713664230077664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-59890678992086693772012-08-08T12:44:25.279-07:002012-08-08T12:44:25.279-07:00Well said S.R. - and let us not forget that this i...Well said S.R. - and let us not forget that this is also the way that Traditional Lineages the world over have always functioned, and continue to promulgate their Mysteria. <br /><br />This is not at all some strange Spiritual innovation that suddenly appeared in the Golden Dawn context via the Third Order...<br /><br />GD Reconstructionism can build many interesting works of art upon the foundation of the Outer Order, but there is no way to use this creativity to connect up the wires with the actual machine as it has been constructed and continuously operated by the Third Order.<br /><br />One can use a machine in ways that it was not designed to be used. One can use a lawn mower to slice cheese, or a jet engine to clear dead leaves, but there remain the actual purposes for these machines - and IMO it is in those contexts that they truly come alive, (...of course I would say that, I am a Traditionalist.)<br /><br />Reconstructionists are busy dreaming up new ways to stamp their maker's mark onto the GD machine, but it remains the original GD machine, with a purpose designed into it from the outset.<br /><br />This is diversity in action. Perhaps with a little more maturity in the wider GD community BOTH sides can be allowed to Work in peace on their respective projects?Aletheia LVXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17762845110527318958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-16512621956826696742012-08-08T12:07:03.772-07:002012-08-08T12:07:03.772-07:00Fantastic job SR! A concise rebuttal. Calm and to ...Fantastic job SR! A concise rebuttal. Calm and to the point. This is exactly what we need. I know many hard working students out there want to see this kind of conversation instead of troll tactics and fear-mongering.<br /><br />I respect Pat's views but they are very misguided in my opinion. Plenty of students from the entire Golden Dawn spectrum have learned this. We even offered these materials for them to see for themselves and to understand this isn't new theorycrafting. This is legitmate, 3rd order, external formulae of theurgical procedures.<br /><br />We can disagree without devolving into senselessness. Debate is healthy and I am eager to see how Pat responds. I hope he engages in an honest, calm debate. There is NO flame war. Only comments meant to defile our order. We stand against them in a peaceful and loving, yet protective manner. This order is dear to us and is about spiritual growth. We stand against attacks made on the rose, together, as one, with students across the world.<br /><br />For the rose!<br /><br />In LVXAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-34266551556927854382012-08-08T11:26:06.353-07:002012-08-08T11:26:06.353-07:00Thou dost floggest the deceased beast of burthen.Thou dost floggest the deceased beast of burthen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com