Brothers and Sisters of the Golden Dawn in all temples and orders everywhere:
I was just reading various Golden Dawn Blogs and came across a fascinating post by Morgan Drake Eckstein musing about the possibility of Golden Dawn Unity. Morgan asked:
Morgan Drake Eckstein"Unified Golden Dawn, is it even possible?"
"Over the last week, since the posting of several Golden Dawn videos posted up on YouTube by the Hermetic Golden Dawn (Alpha et Omega in the Inner), I have been thinking about the possibility of an unified Golden Dawn. The conclusion that I have came to is that we are as far away from an unified Golden Dawn as we were in 1901 after the Revolt of the Adepts. For those who have not studied Golden Dawn history, there were several rival Orders that came out of the Revolt; none of which really got along with one another and all claiming to be the only one really working the system properly.
Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
This last week, several of the Golden Dawn forums and blogs have been busy talking about the errors and merits of what was presented in the videos. Some mud was also slung. Part of it is merely because of past wounds earned during the struggle to be the last Order standing in modern times; the other part was actually based on differences in training and experience. In the end, everyone has agreed that if you don't agree with their opinion, you are wrong.Or almost everyone. And this makes me think that the internet and legal battles have insured that no peaceful co-existence is possible among the Big Name Orders, and that the little independent lodges should prepare to be destoryed. I so hope that this is merely the paranoia whispering in my ear like a bloated toad.
[For those who do not know, I have been involved in several battles in both the ceremonial and wiccan communities that boil down to "I am the only legitimate XXX in the entire state"; it makes one a touch paranoid, especially one has been expelled merely for not giving absolute obedience to a leader.]
At this point, any call for a unified Golden Dawn is going to be shouted down. I am open to being proven wrong. But in order to have an unified Golden Dawn, or even one where people get along peaceful with the members of the other Golden Dawn Orders, trust has to be possible. And this last week has proven that trust is a rare item in our community."
Thank you, Morgan, for your kind words about the videos. The whole point of making them was merely to share joy about the 100th Anniversary of the Alpha et Omega with the rest of the Golden Dawn community. Despite the personal attacks, it has still been worth it. In fact, you have given our order a marvelous idea.
You are absolutely correct that we need more unity in the Golden Dawn. This was the dream of our late Praemonstrator of the Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega, Marquis Nicholas Tereshenko.
The real question is, however, what sort of model can unite the Golden Dawn? I concur that any sort of a "Unified" Golden Dawn as a single organization is a pipe dream. Would you, Morgan, ever want Bast temple to sacrifice its independence and autonomy? I don't think anyone would want anything like this.
But there is another model and paradigm that I think many of us in the Golden Dawn community will be able to get behind. How about:
"Golden Dawn Harmony"
In my opinion, a big part of the problem of Golden Dawn quarreling is really about "too many Chiefs and not enough Indians." What I mean by this is that too many Golden Dawn Chiefs are putting their personal financial and egoic interests, like the marketing their orders, ahead of the spiritual development of their members.
I believe that most Golden Dawn members want Golden Dawn harmony, no matter which order they belong to. The factional problem isn't coming from rank and file Golden Dawn members.
But, at the end of the day, the Golden Dawn is not about Golden Dawn leaders and their interests. It is about Golden Dawn initiates and their spiritual development.
An important aspect of this problem is that leaders in the Golden Dawn community have a disproportionate public voice. Let's take, for example, the problem that has emerged in recent months of Golden Dawn leaders using blogs to market their orders and criticize other orders. This problem has been made even worse by "anonymous defamation blogs" attacking other orders, also clearly with a marketing agenda.
This is obviously and clearly an abuse of the Blogoshpere and this is a great example of the larger problem. So what is the solution?
The solution is for Golden Dawn members to find their voice and to tell their leaders that they want Golden Dawn harmony. For example, the way to end the factional fighting in the Blogosphere is for more and more Golden Dawn members to start their own blogs and find their voice there as well.
The larger the legitimate Golden Dawn discussion becomes on real blogs of Golden Dawn members, the more difficult it will be for Golden Dawn leaders to hijack that discussion for their marketing agendas or anonymous trolls merely to defame other orders.
You see, in the Blogosphere there is no difference between you or I. What difference does it make to which Golden Dawn order you belong or do I? For that matter, what difference does it make what Golden Dawn Grade you hold or do I?
In the Blogosphere we are all equals. We each have an equal voice. Indeed, this is the beauty and power of the Blogosphere - that a even a Neophyte from a small, independent temple in Denver or Chicago has the same voice as a Magus from one of the largest Golden Dawn orders in the world!
The Blogosphere is not a platform for Golden Dawn marketing or for anonymous defamation of other orders. These are misuses of the wonderful opportunity that the Blogosphere presents to us that, in fact, endanger this incredible potential.
The Blogosphere is a place where we in the Golden Dawn community can all gather together as equals and discuss things that lay close to our hearts. Here there are no orders. Here there are no temples. Here there are no grades. Here we are all just Brothers and Sisters of the Golden Dawn and we all have an equally important voice.
Numerous of our Golden Dawn brothers and sisters from a variety of temples and orders are already speaking out against the misuse of the Blogosphere by anonymous trolls to attack and defame other orders. Well, there is a simple solution to this problem, and you, my dear Brothers and Sisters of the Golden Dawn are the solution.
What we need is a multitude of Brothers and Sisters of the Golden Dawn, from all of the temples and all of the orders, each with his or her own Golden Dawn related blog. You each have the same right to be heard on your own blog as do I or any Golden Dawn leader.
How many of you are fed up to the gills with all of the constant bickering?
How many of you are fed up with Golden Dawn leaders constantly trying to demonize other Golden Dawn orders or their leaders?
How many of you are fed up with anonymous trolls spreading defamation that harms not only this order or that temple, but the reputation of the entire Golden Dawn?
Well, I say - Brothers and Sisters of the Golden Dawn, the time has come to make your voices heard!
Far too long have Golden Dawn leaders had a disproportional voice in our community to that of their members.
And far too long have Golden Dawn leaders abdicated their responsibility to promote Golden Dawn harmony!
There is no need for us to go on shouting at one another. I have no doubt that there are many among us who have grown weary of all the shouting.
Let us instead speak softly with one another. For a multitude even of whispers is more powerful than the loudest shout!
Let us instead speak softly with one another. For a multitude even of whispers is more powerful than the loudest shout!
And remember, the Golden Dawn is about YOU and your spiritual development.
Do you want Golden Dawn harmony? Then the time to remain silent is past. It is time for the silent majority of Golden Dawn members to find thier voices and to speak out in favor of Golden Dawn harmony.
We are magicians. Let us prove that our magic is true by together manifesting Golden Dawn harmony.
A Personal Invitation to the
Golden Dawn Harmony - International Conclave
Vernal Equinox (March 19-25, 2010)
Paris, France
Here at the HOGD/AO, we were already thinking about Golden Dawn harmony when we were making the YouTube ritual and conclave films in Paris. We were thinking, wouldn't it be nice if Golden Dawn brothers and sisters from every temple in the world had the opportunity to be here with us? Well, guess what. This is exactly what we here at the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, the outer order of the Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega are going to do.
We are inviting YOU right now - to the Golden Dawn Harmony - International Conclave on Vernal Equinox, 2010!
What better way to promote Golden Dawn harmony than with a solid week of lectures, rituals, workshops, and party together? And what better place to do this than in Paris in the Spring - and hosted by the world famous Ahathöor Temple, No. 7 founded in 1892 by S.L. MacGregor Mathers no less.
I believe that Golden Dawn intiates from around the world are greater than the differences between us. I also believe that the time has come to put our differences behind us once and for all. This is why we are announcing our next International Golden Dawn Conclave almost a full year in advance.
And this time we are extending a personal invitation to every single Golden Dawn brother and sister from any Golden Dawn temple or order anywhere in the world!
That's right. YOU are invited! All initiates of all Golden Dawn orders and temples. Even your leaders are welcome. In fact, we are even extending this invitation to initiates of Rosicrucian orders as well.
And speaking of which, we are already putting together another powerful panel of speakers for the conclave that this time will represent not merely the Golden Dawn, but a broad spectrum of the greater esoteric community as well.
Never before has there ever been such an amazingly international and eclectic Golden Dawn event like this. It is our sincere hope that leaders of other Golden Dawn orders are finally willing set quarreling and factionalism aside - or at least for a week, any way! Why not join us instead in promoting Golden Dawn harmony together in Paris?
We are inviting YOU right now - to the Golden Dawn Harmony - International Conclave on Vernal Equinox, 2010!What better way to promote Golden Dawn harmony than with a solid week of lectures, rituals, workshops, and party together? And what better place to do this than in Paris in the Spring - and hosted by the world famous Ahathöor Temple, No. 7 founded in 1892 by S.L. MacGregor Mathers no less.
I believe that Golden Dawn intiates from around the world are greater than the differences between us. I also believe that the time has come to put our differences behind us once and for all. This is why we are announcing our next International Golden Dawn Conclave almost a full year in advance.
And this time we are extending a personal invitation to every single Golden Dawn brother and sister from any Golden Dawn temple or order anywhere in the world!That's right. YOU are invited! All initiates of all Golden Dawn orders and temples. Even your leaders are welcome. In fact, we are even extending this invitation to initiates of Rosicrucian orders as well.
And speaking of which, we are already putting together another powerful panel of speakers for the conclave that this time will represent not merely the Golden Dawn, but a broad spectrum of the greater esoteric community as well.Never before has there ever been such an amazingly international and eclectic Golden Dawn event like this. It is our sincere hope that leaders of other Golden Dawn orders are finally willing set quarreling and factionalism aside - or at least for a week, any way! Why not join us instead in promoting Golden Dawn harmony together in Paris?
And even if your leaders decide that fighting and factionalism is more important than Golden Dawn harmony, you are still invited anyway!
Like I mentioned earlier, the Golden Dawn is not about the egoic or financial interests of its leaders. It is about the spiritual development of its members.
YOU - the brothers and sisters of the Golden Dawn - are what matters - YOU and nothing else. If you and other Golden Dawn initiates want harmony - then what our leaders want can't stand in our way. Golden Dawn harmony will manifest - with us or without us!
YOU - the brothers and sisters of the Golden Dawn - are what matters - YOU and nothing else. If you and other Golden Dawn initiates want harmony - then what our leaders want can't stand in our way. Golden Dawn harmony will manifest - with us or without us!
Golden Dawn initiates and leaders can either get on the harmony train with the rest of us - or they can get left behind at the station.
Either way, Golden Dawn harmony is an idea whose time has come - this train is on a roll - and nothing can to stop it!
Why?
Because the vast majority of Brothers and Sisters of the Golden Dawn from all around the world want peace and harmony in the Golden Dawn community - no matter which temple or order they belong to.
And because together - in harmony - there is no force in the universe that can stop us!
See you in Paris - at the Golden Dawn Harmony International Conclave!
Either way, Golden Dawn harmony is an idea whose time has come - this train is on a roll - and nothing can to stop it!
Why?
Because the vast majority of Brothers and Sisters of the Golden Dawn from all around the world want peace and harmony in the Golden Dawn community - no matter which temple or order they belong to.
And because together - in harmony - there is no force in the universe that can stop us!
See you in Paris - at the Golden Dawn Harmony International Conclave!
Sub Umbra Alarum Tuarum, Yeheshua
G.H. Frater Lux Ex Septentrionis
Imperator Ordinis, Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn
Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega
"Ex Deo Nascimur.
In Yeheshua Morimur.
Per Sanctum Spiritum Reviviscimus"
Iam very looking forward to this event!
ReplyDeleteKonx Om Pax,
Frater L.e.N.e.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSam Scarborough wrote:
ReplyDelete"While I appreciate the continued offer to come and participate in the Vernal Equinox in 2010 in Paris, you realize that those whom are members of Orders other than your own have obligations to there Orders on that particular date? Thus most whom belong to other Orders would be unlikely to attend such an invitation, so your invitations to others is merely moot. This of course would apply to attempting a meeting on Day C as well. Perhaps if your Order so wanted to have fraternal relations and a grand meeting for all Orders, then of course schedule it when it would not conflict with other obligations. Just a suggestion."
Care Frater Samuel,
Our offer of Golden Dawn Harmony is legit, and yes, even you, Nick, Ian, and other members and leaders of your order are invited whether or not you want to admit your involvement in the Golden Dawn ;-)
You raise an important issue about scheduling and potential conflicts, however. The nice thing about planning this so far in advance is that we can easily overcome such obstacles.
How would you like to see this resolved? We could easily shift the dates to comprise the following weekend instead or to include both weekends? Which would work better for you? Do you have any other input/suggestions about scheduling?
We really want the Golden Dawn Harmony Conclave to be a great experience for everyone and deliberately are planning this far enough in advance that there need not be any scheduling conflicts.
Fraternally,
L.e.S.
(David Griffin)
On the EOGD forum Aima Elohim wrote:
ReplyDelete> Griffin says he wants to end the flame war! A notion that I deeply agree with. Recently, (like two days ago), a potential student e-mail me and said that he was thinking of joining our Order. He said he started doing some research on-line, and you know what he found? Nothing but flame posts and blogs... He was sickened by this and asked my why I would be apart of any system that behaved this way...OMG!
Care et V.H. Soror Aima Elohim,
First of all, let me say that I look forward to prhaps finally meeting you next Spring at the Golden Dawn Harmony conclave in Paris. I would like to take this opportunity to extend an invitation to you personally. Much can be accomplished by everyone meeting together, breaking bread, doing ritual, and listening to lectures together beyond factional and order boundaries!
Next, I am extremely pleased to see that someone from the EOGD is finally beginning to understand defamation as a marketing tool is not helping anyone and to take the HOGD/AO's peace initiative that our order launched in March seriously.
The problem, however, is not only on the anonymously published blogs but also on our mutual websites.
You still have pages on EOGD websites, for example, talking about "megalomaniac" Golden Dawn leaders and a mysterious connection between the Golden Dawn and Nazism. There is another page on your site that Robert knows falsely claims that my Ritual Magic Manual contains "Demonic Invocation." All of this is clearly harmful to the entire Golden Dawn tradition.
You will perhaps recall that already as early as March, HOGD/AO offered to collaborate closely with EOGD leadership in beginning to remove all such objectionable pages from the websites of "both" of our orders on a mutual, multilateral basis.
Sadly, the only answer that we ever received from the leaders of EOGD were dozens of new personal attacks on your forum on HOGD/AO members in the ensuing weeks, the latest of which you published only yesterday by Pat Zalewksi.
I sincerely hope that, since you are finally understanding how harmful such pages on our websites actually are to the Golden Dawn tradition as a whole, that this means that your order is finally ready to begin to cooperate with the HOGD/AO to clean up our websites on a mutual basis by "each" removing all such harmful materials.
G.H. Frater Robert Zink has my personal email address and I would be happy to give him my private phone number as well. As I have since the beginning of March, I continue to welcome G.H. Frater Robert Zink to contact me at any time to discuss how we should best accomplish this.
Moreover, I would like to extend a personal invitation to G.H. Frater Robert Zink to present a paper at the Golden Dawn Harmony Conclave in Paris next Spring on any subject of his choosing. It would be a very good thing if the leadership of the EOGD would begin to work closely together with the leadership of the HOGD/AO not only to end defamation of both of our orders, but also to actively promote Golden Dawn harmony.
Aima Elohim wrote:
> The GD is a beautiful system that deserves respect and awe. It has amazing benefits to it, and not one can see past this Sh&T! This flame war is bound to hurt all Orders if it doesn't stop. So, now Griffin says he wants to end the war, but do you really David? On your forum I just read a post by some guy who is asking why Robert doesn't denounce blogs that put down you and your Order?
> I havn't seen you denouncing any of the "blogs" such as the "Golden Dawn Observer" which purports to be on noone's side, yet takes up a lot of time praising you, and putting down Robert. The Golden Dawn Observer seems to be the exact same thing as The Insider, but on the opposite team. You know what would be sweet? If both you and Robert wrote a personal letter to these bloggers and asked them to remain scholarly.
> Come on Griffin, if you were really taking a serious stance than I bet others would follow suite. I mean, at least for the survival and integrity of the GD can we make this happen?
> Aima
Actually, I have repeatedly condemned ALL of the anonymous bloggers on an equal basis and have even urged those thinking that they are somehow helping the HOGD/AO by attacking the EOGD to "zip their lips" if they really want to help. (For example, on Morgan Drake Eckstein's blog at: http://gleamingsfromthedawn.blogspot.com/2009/04/unified-golden-dawn-is-it-even-possible.html)
As an additional measure, I am cross-posting this letter on the HOGD/AO blog as well. I hope this will also help a little to end this nonsense from the anonymous blog trolls.
I also agree that we could do a lot more though. We need concerted action from both of our orders. Merely urging the anonymous troll blogs to remain scholarly will not help. Those anonymity of those bloggers clearly exists only to defame.
We therefore need to take stronger measures than you urge. I would suggest that G.H. Frater Robert Zink and I draft a common statement together, urging the anonymous bloggers to end all defamation no matter who they think they are helping. I suggest that we publish this concerted statement on both of the official EGOD and the HOGD/AO blogs simultaneously.
To give this concerted added credibility, I suggest we should simultaneously, mutually remove all objectionable pages from our respective websites and announce this in our combined statement.
I believe that witnessing the HOGD/AO and the EOGD taking serious, concerted action to end the defamation will send a powerful signal to everyone and I believe will help a lot!
Aima Elohim wrote:
> Big Ups to blogs that actually spend time on real GD material
http://mishkan-ha-echad.blogspot.com/
http://golden-dawn.blogspot.com/
http://flightofhermes.bligspot.com/
http://magicoftheordinary.wordpress.com/
> Thumbs Down to blogs that keep feeding the flame war...
> End the Flame War!
> Aima
This is a step in the right direction, but does not go far enough because it remains factional by leaving out the HOGD/AO blog and Sincerus Renatus blog. We have actually already transcended faction by including EOGD member's blogs on our own HOGD/AO blogroll. I urge G.H. Frater Zink to join with us in promoting Golden Dawn harmony by likewise rising above factionalism and including the HOGD/AO blogs in the above list on the EOGD blogroll as well.
A more complete list of legitimate Golden Dawn blogs (beyond factionalism) would presently be (if I have missed any please let me know):
• Gyllene Gryningen Blog (Sincerus Renatus)
• Magic of the Ordinary (Frater Peregrin)
• Golden Dawn - Hermetic Student
• Flight of Hermes (Soror FSO)
• Mishka ha-Echad Blog (Dean Wilson)
• A Practicing Golden Dawn Magician's Thoughts
• Gleamings From the Dawn (Morgan Drake Eckstein)
• The Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn Blog
• Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn Blog
This is a step in the right direction, but does not go far enough because it remains factional by leaving out the HOGD/AO blog and Sincerus Renatus blog. We have actually included the EOGD members blogs on our own HOGD/AO blogroll and I urge G.H. Frater Zink to join with us in promoting Golden Dawn harmony by transcending factionalism and including the HOGD/AO blogs in the above list as well.
The blogs by anonymous trolls that I condemn and urge G.H. Frater Zink in joining with me in condemning, no matter who they are atacking are:
The Golden Dawn UK and Around the World
The Golden Dawn Insider
The Golden Dawn Observer
Cult Watch: Robert Zink's Order of the Morning Star
If G.H. Frater Robert Zink is willing to rise above factionalism and cooperate with the HOGD/AO to condemn the anonymous blogs and to mutually remove offensive pages from our mutual websites, I believe we can together deal a serious blow of defamation that is harming the entire Golden Dawn tradition.
I sincerely hope that the above post from you represents the beginnings of true cooperation and combined promotion of Golden Dawn harmony, and not just more empty posturing.
Golden Dawn harmony is an idea whose time has come!
Sub Umbra Alarum Tuarum, Yeheshua,
David Griffin
G.H. Frater Lux Ex Septentrionis
Imperator Ordinis, Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn
Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega
"Ex Deo Nascimur.
In Yeheshua Morimur.
Per Sanctum Spiritum Reviviscimus"
--- In Hermetic-Order-of-the-Golden-Dawn@yahoogroups.com, EOGD's Frater Erzulien erzulien@.. wrote:
ReplyDelete> Ave,
> We would like to see you coming to Power Week at Ptah temple with some members of your group to celebrate with us.
> I would like to see how Robert would reply if you manifest the desire to present something at Power week.
I would be honored to address our Golden Dawn brothers and sisters from EOGD at your power week, assuming that my work schedule permits. This would go very far to heal the factionalism that has plagued the entire Golden Dawn community.
What are the exact dates? My only concern is that as I recall, power week is usually held in August, which is the busiest month of the year in the tour and travel industry in which I work as a tour director. I will make every effort to be there, and even if I can not rearrange my tour schedule, I pledge to send another of our order's Chiefs to address your order in my place, perhaps even G.H. Frater D.e.D.I., Dr. Jorge Hevia III, who is a former EOGD member himself. This could go far to healing the wounds between us.
I sincerely hope that the EOGD leadership will join with HOGD/AO leadership in:
1. issuing a concerted statement together condemning the anonymous troll blogs
2. in listing a "complete" list of legitimate blogs on the blogrolls of both the HOGD/AO and EOGD blogs (This further isolates the anonymous troll blogs)
3. in "mutually" removing offensive pages towards other orders from our respective websites on a mutual basis. This is long overdue.
Most importantly, I hope that you, your leaders, and many of our Golden Dawn brothers and sisters in the EOGD will join us in promoting Golden Dawn harmony at the Golden Dawn Harmony Conclave in Paris next Spring!
I have no doubt that the brothers and sisters of the EOGD want Golden Dawn harmony as badly as the brothers and sisters of the HOGD/AO do.
The differences between us are not nearly as great as the Golden Dawn bonds that unite us. Should we not put factionalism between EOGD and HOGD/AO behind us once and for all?
Golden Dawn harmony is an idea whose time has come!
Sub Umbra Alarum Tuarum, Yeheshua
David Griffin
G.H. Frater Lux Ex Septentrionis
Imperator Ordinis, Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn
Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega
"Ex Deo Nascimur.
In Yeheshua Morimur.
Per Sanctum Spiritum Reviviscimus"
Ending Golden Dawn Defamation: Where should we draw the line?
ReplyDelete(cross-post from HOGS/AO forum)
Yesterday EOGD's V.H. Soror Aima Elohim wrote:
> I do respect your decision to put the EOGD blog on your blogroll, but I would like to mention that Hermetic Student does have some pretty nasty things to say about the EOGD and its members. I know that it is not your job to police the blogs, but if we are really going to make an effort maybe we should police the one's on our blogrolls? Just a suggestion.
Dear V.H. Sister,
I am not sure about this criteria to define a "legitmate" GD blog, as the official EOGD blog, for example, also has "some pretty nasty things to say about the HOGD/AO and its members (especially me), yet we still put it on our blogroll. Is EOGD big enough to likewise rise above factionalism and put the HOGD/AO blog on your blogroll as well?
I would like to commend your new willingness to explore cooperation with HOGD/AO in attempting to clean up the image of the entire Golden Dawn tradition caused by defamation trolls on anonymous blogs and websites, together with some fear-mongering marketing tactics by several GD orders (or, in the case of the Open Source Order of the Golden Dawn's (OSOGD) Nagasiva Yronwode, their members "archiving" defamatory material on their personal websites to appear in Google searches).
I note also that you add the disclaimer that you do not speak for the EOGD. Well, who does speak for EOGD then? Is is not time that EOGD finally begin to show some real leadership and have someone step up to the plate who does speak for EOGD?
In this regard, I spoke with Alpha et Omega Chief Adept, G.H. Frater Lux Aurora, Jean-Pascal Ruggiu, this morning. Jean-Pascal wants me to represent the AO in these discussions. As Jean-Pascal lives in magical retreat and relative isolation, he prefers not to be personally involved in such matters directly himself.
Obviously, any lasting solution to the defamation problem is going to require the good will of several orders and there are liable to be some bumps along the road.
You and I, Sister, are far from alone in our distress about the defamatory blogs that have appeared on the Blogosphere in recent months. Legitimate Golden Dawn bloggers, from Dean Wilson to Peregrin, have also addressed this issue on their blogs.
My suggestion was that we take concerted action in condemning the anonymous activities of defamatory blogs, by
1. Making a joint statement condemning their activities, and
2. Listing as complete a list as possible of legitimate blogs on our blogrolls, including one another's (which as yet I notice EOGD has failed to do) in order to also transcend factionalism.
It would also help if legitimate bloggers don't feed the trolls by not allowing them to comment on legitimate Golden Dawn blogs.
I think that everyone agrees that the Golden Dawn Insider, Observer, and Cult Watch blogs all equally deserve public condemnation and isolation by the legitimate blogging community.
But you raise a thornier issue with the irreverent blog of the "Hermetic Student," whose humorous but biting comments are routinely allowed across a spectrum legitimate Golden Dawn blogs.
Whereas we obviously need to take a common stand against anonymous defamation, I think we need to be careful so as not to inadvertently stifle legitimate voices of dissent. This is, after all, one of the legitimate functions of the Blogosphere.
I am therefore opening this question up to the entire Golden Dawn community both here on Yahoo and on the Blogosphere:
"Should blogs like that of the Golden Dawn's "Hermetic Student" be actively encouraged or discouraged? Where should we draw the line?"
In this regard, I find it significant that the Hermetic Student has answered you himself, Aima, on his blog today. At the very least, he ought to be givin the chance to answer you hiimself:
http://goldendawnhermetic.wordpress.com/
So, what do you, brothers and sisters of all Golden Dawn temples ans orders think about this? What should we do to end defamation and where should we draw the line?
Sub Umbra Alarum Tuarum, Yeheshua
David Griffin
G.H. Frater Lux Ex Septentrionis
Imperator Ordinis, Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn
Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega
"Ex Deo Nascimur.
In Yeheshua Morimur.
Per Sanctum Spiritum Reviviscimus"
Cross-posted from the HOGD/AO Yahoo forum:
ReplyDeleteSubject: Golden Dawn Harmony and YOU!
Pat Zalewksi wrote:
> Firstly I have seen this before and it has amounted to nothing. Secondly who the hell are you? Aima is not much to go on. You have been angling for this for some time. Frankly I think this is all bullshit as flame wars will continue under other strange names that will pop up from time to time when its tantrum time. I suggest to you to make an educated guess who will be writing about harmony one minute and flaming under another name at the same time. Its a well established pattern. Whatever it is count me out.
> Pat
EOGD's VH Soror "Aima Elohim" replied:
> Thank you for your opinion Pat. I already told David that he shouldn't expect people to start jumping at the bit to make this happen. If he is serious he will show the GD community over time that he really wants peace.
> As for my identity... no Aima is not much to go on. I am not the head of an Order, nor do I sell books, or anything Golden Dawn related, thus I don't feel the need to reveal my identity. I have a family, and I have seen why having a public identity in this community is not at all beneficial to one's privacy, thus I like to reserve my right as a magician for it to
> Suffice it to say that I am a member of the EOGD, I am a teacher, I have been apart of this forum for a long time engaging in scholarly debate and supporting our Order and Robert. I have also decided that I am sick of being in the drama, witnessing the drama, and seeing it neg. effect the Golden Dawn as a whole.
Personally, from this point on I will continue to engage in scholarly debates and discussions, but I will not participate in any flaming,
> Aima
Care et V.H. Soror Aima Elohim,
I would like to commend you once again for speaking out in favor of Golden Dawn harmony. I am sorry to see that you are getting flamed for this as well, but you should really have expected this. Just look at how much heat the members of the HOGD/AO have been getting for suggesting this.
It is a common trick of Totalitarian governments to keep the populace in line by creating the illusion of some sort of "evil enemy" that everyone needs to unite against. This technique has been used with great success, for example, by Muslim extremists recruiting by painting the USA as a "Great Satan."
Unfortunately, some people have been using these same demonization techniques for years to unite their own Golden Dawn orders or to create alliances within the Golden Dawn community by painting "David Griffin" as some sort of menacing devil.
This would not be so tragic had this not polarized the entire Golden Dawn community for years now and resulted in the terrible anonymous defamation that has all but destroyed the reputation of the Golden Dawn tradition as a whole.
The truth is that there are no "devils" in your neighbor Golden Dawn orders, just like there are no "Satanic Cult" or "Nazi" Golden Dawn orders. All of this nonsense is profiting just a few individuals and hurting all the rest of the entire Golden Dawn community.
It does not surprise me to see Pat Z. take a such cynical attitude towards the entire notion of Golden Dawn harmony. This is just Pat's usual style and all of us are used to it already. Pat does bring up one valid point though ...
... there truly do exist certain conflicts between particular Golden Dawn leaders that can not and will not be solved overnight.
There is a lot of bad blood between Pat and myself, for example. I don't trust Pat at all and seriously doubt I ever will again either. And obviously the feeling is mutual from Pat's side as well.
But my question is, "So what?"
"Should entire Golden Dawn orders, even the entire Golden Dawn community have to suffer for years upon years, merely because their leaders have ongoing conflicts?"
Enough is enough already!
This is why in HOGD/AO's invitation to the International Golden Dawn Harmony Conclave in Paris does not exclude any GD member, including Pat Zalewksi.
On the contrary, DESPITE our differences, Pat Z is still welcome to attend the International Golden Dawn Harmony Conclave and even to address the entire assembled Golden Dawn community there is he wishes to do so!
If Pat Zalewski would rather hold a personal grudge than promote Golden Dawn harmony, he is certainly welcome to do so. That is his own business. But he is still invited by the HOGD/AO.
Brothers and Sisters of the Golden Dawn:
Let us not be naive about this! There certainly do exist very real conflicts between a number of Golden Dawn leaders that have gone on
not for years, but for decades. These conflicts are not going to be solved overnight either.
But why should the entire Golden Dawn community continue to suffer merely because of the issues of their leaders?
Certain Golden Dawn leaders would like you to believe that there can be no Golden Dawn harmony - unless each and every one of these conflicts are resolved first.
I do not believe this even for one minute.
The truth is that every nation on Earth only exists by virtue of the collective will of its people.
The same holds true for Golden Dawn orders.
These orders do not exist because of Pat Zalewksi, Robert Zink or myself!
Every single Golden Dawn order only exists by virtue of the collective magical will of its members.
And Brothers and Sisters of the Golden Dawn, the collective magical will of the entire Golden Dawn community is crying out for Golden Dawn harmony!
I, for one, have heard you, Brothers and Sisters, and I promise you that I will not rest until the goal of Golden Dawn harmony is achieved.
You are fed up with endless conflicts and being told to see a devil in your neighbor instead of a loving brother or sister.
I have heard you crying out for harmony and am doing my best to break the spell of illusion that divides us.
I have even stepped down - have sacrificed my post as Chief Adept of the Alpha et Omega and passed the reigns of leadership to another of your Brothers - so that there is no doubt that there is no "devil" at the helm of the A.O.
And, Brothers and Sisters, I have no doubt that the road to harmony is a rocky road - there will be trials - there will be tribulations.
But there is one thing that I do believe in with an unshakable faith- All of YOU, Brothers and Sisters of the Golden Dawn.
I also believe that love is the most powerful force in the Universe. Love is more powerful than hatred - and love is certainly more powerful than the differences that divide you and I.
Golden Dawn harmony is a concept based on fraternal love and understanding.
So if you truly want Golden Dawn harmony - if your hearts are pure - and your intention is noble and based on love - then there is no force in the Universe that can withstand the power your will - the combined magical will of the entire Golden Dawn community!
If you truly want Golden Dawn harmony, Brothers and Sisters, then neither I nor any other Golden Dawn leader can stand in your way.
Golden Dawn harmony is an idea whose time has come. Those of us blessed by fortune to be in positions of leadership in the Golden Dawn community can either get on the harmony train with the rest of you - or we can get left behind at the station.
Your brother in the Great Work
David Griffin, FR+C
Cross-posted from the HOGD/AO Yahoo forum
ReplyDeleteRe: Golden Dawn Harmony and YOU!
Brothers and Sisters of the Golden Dawn
Aima Elohim wrote:
> ATTENTION: David Griffin of the HOGD/AO
I have spent the past 24 hours talking on the phone, reading e-mails
etc...and the bottom line is...everyone deeply desires for there to be
peace, but most people just do not trust that you are being honest about your intentions. As it has been stated, all of the other Orders get along perfectly, but you have spent so many years defaming other Orders, people's personal lives, and the teachings and practices of others that you have completly burned your
bridges. Personally, I believe that if you are sincere about having peace with everyone you will show everone over time that you are, and it may have to be without recompense. I have done what I promised to you, discussed with people thier opinions and tried to convince them to give you one more shot. I am now going to bow-out of this whole buisness altogether. I do hope you are serious
about wanting peace, but only you will prove your honesty in this matter.
Sincerly,
Aima
With all due respect, I don't need to prove anything at all to them. I too was at the butt end of years of Robert Zink and others defamation of our order, our personal lives, and personal teachings so much that they have also completely burned their bridges.
Yet, here I am reaching above my own gut feelings for the betterment of the community as a whole. Everything I am doing and will continue to do will be for YOU, Brothers and Sisters of the Golden Dawn - and not for Robert Zink or Pat or any other order leader.
It is up to them whether to be part of the solution or continue to be part of the problem.
Some people clearly do not want Golden Dawn harmony for ANY reason. what they want is to continue fear and hate mongering for personal gain...
...and they do not care how much they hurt YOU - or anyone else - with this.
Don't be fooled. We are not going anywhere. Their continued fear and hate mongering attacks on the HOGD/AO are harming the entire Golden Dawn community and reputation of the GD tradition as a whole.
Something fundamental has already changed, however. In the past, they had an excuse to justify their continued choice to engage in smear, hate and negativity.
Since last Equinox, we have deprived them of that excuse, however, and more and more people in the Golden Dawn community are seeing through their deceit.
They mistakenly believe that they are saying no to me.
But in saying no to Golden Dawn harmony, Brothers and Sisters, they are saying no to YOU!
It is not to me they have a responsibility, but to YOU.
If you want Golden Dawn harmony, then see through the excuses of those to seek to deceive you.
You have the right to demand responsible leadership instead of lies and deceit.
Sub Umbra Alarum Tuarum, Yeheshua
David Griffin
G.H. Frater Lux Ex Septentrionis
Imperator Ordinis, Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn
Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega
"Ex Deo Nascimur.
In Yeheshua Morimur.
Per Sanctum Spiritum Reviviscimus"
In case you haven't noticed, the "Hermetic Student," with his usual biting humor, just compared Golden Dawn harmony with the maiden voyage of the Titanic -
ReplyDeleteand declared it all but dead.
I hope he is wrong, but his arguments are humorous - if not compelling:
http://goldendawnhermetic.wordpress.com/
What do the rest of you think? Is Golden Dawn harmony a dead idea?
Hi,
ReplyDeleteIt may be off place for me who is not initiated into any GD-temple to voice my opinion in this matter. But I think the ending question is very interesting.
I do not think Golden Dawn harmony is a dead idea. But it may or may not bear any fruit on the short term. It is futile to consider a long term goal as 'harmony' to have failed if it does not immediately result in any progression towards this goal.
All positive measures, such as taking the high road with regards to defamation campaigns and not participating in any mud-slinging should be applauded. If harmony may be considered Utopian here and now by some, then at least most would agree that any progression towards a goal that may or may not become a reality is still a progression towards something better then what have been.
After all: A long voyage still begins with one step.
Best of wishes,
In L.V.X