tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post1787259468823004461..comments2023-09-01T10:08:28.177-07:00Comments on The Golden Dawn Blog: Astral Masters and the Golden DawnImperator David Griffinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-85414901407108339912013-01-18T14:41:04.969-08:002013-01-18T14:41:04.969-08:00that's good and reasonable mr.griffin But that...that's good and reasonable mr.griffin But that order of golden dawn statement is a way too much advertising:..if you have any problem with your master we just do it cool, and find a new master for you, there is no need for resentment..Is that the way enlightenment happens, or your just trying to find some new students.<br /><br />don't get it wrong mr.griffin, certainly I'm a big fan, I just shared what i felt by reading that page. thanks anywayAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03807439714621931115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-17367679994921591852013-01-17T10:20:30.127-08:002013-01-17T10:20:30.127-08:00@ Daniel
Thank you for the clarification.@ Daniel<br /><br />Thank you for the clarification.Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-4731443801224732772013-01-17T08:44:58.650-08:002013-01-17T08:44:58.650-08:00This was a very well-written article with many imp...<br />This was a very well-written article with many important points made, but there is some misinformation that I wanted to point out as well. <br /><br />It is claimed in the article that "This idea of 'Astral Masters' was taken from Helena Blavatsky's theosophy..."<br /><br />That could not be, because the idea of "astral masters" is not a part of Helena Blavatsky's formulation of theosophy. H.P.B. did have her masters, Koot Hoomi and Morya, but never claimed that they were astral entities. In fact, she was very plain about the fact that while she lived, they were flesh-and-blood, living humans. It was claimed that these Masters did communicate with her telepathically, but nonetheless they were living people. There have been all sorts of liberties taken by those who came after H.P.B. and along the line, the popular concept of the Masters has been severely distorted and there are those who claim to be in contact with them still.<br /><br />Given that a similar clarification was made in this article by its author regarding the nature of the Secret Chiefs of the Golden Dawn, I thought it important to point this out. H.P.B. would in fact have agreed with all of the warnings and advice given by the author and did not, herself, ever claim to be channeling astral entities, so it is kind of a shame to see her name used the way that it is in this article. The implication made here, and the impression that it will leave on many readers is not deserved by H.P.B.'s students today. Anyone who reads and agrees with this article would in fact find much to resonate with when it comes to H.P.B.'s writings.<br /><br />Danielhttp://www.theosophynexus.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-38335624406243113022013-01-10T19:28:51.561-08:002013-01-10T19:28:51.561-08:00What is your take on Poke Runyon? In his work on ...What is your take on Poke Runyon? In his work on Solomon, he says repeatedly that the best results come from a trance-like state. He uses incense smoke in several operations to encourage this. He says that hypnotism had very bad connotations in the Victorian era and there were a lot of false assumptions about it, and that was the reason for the pledge in the initiation. He says that eastern systems make use of trance quite often. What's your take on that? Great article.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-75608069838311487092013-01-10T13:52:51.907-08:002013-01-10T13:52:51.907-08:00Thank you for sharing, Frater Barrabbas. As I said...Thank you for sharing, Frater Barrabbas. As I said before, I am not an initiate of British Traditional Wicca, so I am nor really qualified to say anything one way or another about it. As a respected Alexandrian elder and Pagan author, you are in a far better position than I am speak on this from the BTW perspective.Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-9534394606822158312013-01-10T10:17:52.197-08:002013-01-10T10:17:52.197-08:00If I may confer a point or two about drawing down ...If I may confer a point or two about drawing down the Moon or the Sun, I would like to clarify what is being discussed here. <br /><br />A classical drawing down as practiced by most Wiccans is nothing more or less than a Godhead Assumption. The best methodology is when the Goddess or God are defined and characterized, and that the person performing it is sequestered and then allowed to fully assume a full trance without any distractions or interference. While there is typically a person functioning as the inductee for the draw, others treat the Godhead Assumption as a materialization of their coven Deity. <br /><br />However, before that it allowed, the inductee usually performs some kind of test, asking a secret and predetermined question as well as to determine the authentic character of that Deity assumed. Therefore, draws can even be graded in terms of how deep and profound the manifestation of the Deity actually was. Also, in the training of the draw, the witch is shown how to keep their will and personality intact to avoid any kind of regressive assumption. <br /><br />Unnamed Godhead Assumptions are typically bad form, and in fact, the better run covens never mix the roles of the one performing the draw and those who are responsible for running the Esbat. <br /><br />Situations where the HPs or HP perform the draw and also set the circle and run the coven can create an inherent light Godhead assumption and thereby engage in a classic conflict of interests, especially when an unnamed deity draw is performed. <br /><br />Without any tests, an unnamed draw can actually be nothing more than the inflated or regressive personality of the one undergoing the draw. It can lead to situations where the HPs or HP abuse their positions and reinforce that through words spoken by the supposed deity during a draw. <br /><br />Individuals can and are possessed by Goddesses and Gods, but once again, those who are so taken over can be questioned to determine the authenticity and depth of the supposed possession. However, involuntary possession is never to be confused with the draw, since that is a deliberate rite of Godhead Assumption performed by someone who is trained and prepared for it.<br /><br />I hope that this helps to allay any confusion regarding the draw and involuntary possession. <br /><br />FB Frater.Barrabbashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11689013897789072360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-86920665842028068152013-01-09T22:59:58.156-08:002013-01-09T22:59:58.156-08:00Thank you for writing this.
I would agree with w...Thank you for writing this. <br /><br />I would agree with what you say about Drawing Down the Moon. However, with Wicca today, how this is explained or defined would be different. There is a great difference between Wicca as the British Traditionalists of Gardner term it, and how American Eclectics would. <br /><br />American Eclectics would explain it as an Invoking in the Jungian Psychological Archetype sense of working with a personal myth to "invoke" specific and personal changes desired through the alignment with a Deity that they chose or are drawn to as part of self-discovering and self-empowerment. <br /><br />I was told by a HPS a few years back that there were some experiences with un-invoked "divine possessions" not called upon in ritual affecting some members of the Wiccan community. So there were some research into this indigenous and shamanic practice of deity possession so that they were better educated in dealing with it. <br /><br />I have my own personal opinions regarding involuntary possessions of spirits, which I do think is a real danger by those who are inexperienced or are not serious about the use of any form of invocation/evocation. <br /><br />I was a cop's daughter who trained German Shepards. Even as a small toddler, he taught me that as a human, the dog was to serve me. I deal with the spirits I encounter in a similar way: to recognize I have "authority," never show fear (they can smell it.) To be respectful, and never forget that it can turn on you at any moment and kill you. Don't turn your back on them. Use a voice of authority that is firm, but also kind. Be responsible, not abusive, of this authority. <br /><br />As my father grew up on the beaches of the Pacific Ocean, he told me that anything of Nature is wild, unpredictable, and potentially dangerous. Even an expert can misjudge Nature and be killed by it. Even if you do everything right, you can still end up in a dangerous situation. This applies to sports, being outdoors, the study of science, medicine, dealing with children, etc. I have found it to be sound advice. <br /><br />I have used that advice all my life. In the Army, I had the reputation of being "fearless" because of it. (In my defense, a high ranking officer should not ask for my honest opinion if he did not want to hear one. Also, a reputation doesn't mean it is true.) Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08946757059650852514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-38869911615421402022013-01-09T22:32:56.990-08:002013-01-09T22:32:56.990-08:00I am so relieved to read this. Thank you. Channeli...I am so relieved to read this. Thank you. Channeling has never felt right to me, or that people project their own personal power and judgement outside of themselves to another authority. <br /><br />I would agree with what you said about Drawing Down the Moon, that is my experience. Although, in recent years there has been more study, focus, and experimentation with Divine Possession of the Old Gods, which has happened without choice nor control in recent years. From what I understand, some have chosen to do more research into more Shamanic/indigenous practices to learn how to do this with more control. Wicca is so varied now that there is a great divide between how what is termed the "British Traditionalists" of Gardner define it, and how "American Eclectics" define it. American Eclectics would define the Drawing Down the Moon or other such "divine possession" as a Jungian Psychological Archetype of what qualities the person "channeling" wishes to project or discover within themselves. <br /><br />I appreciate you writing this. Again, thank you.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08946757059650852514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-68110020057745891722013-01-09T13:17:26.029-08:002013-01-09T13:17:26.029-08:00Dear MP,
Thank you for this wonderful question. I...Dear MP,<br /><br />Thank you for this wonderful question. I am not an initiate of Wicca or even of BTW, so I can not speak with authority on those traditions. However, it is my understanding that the process of "Drawing Down the Moon" is not the same as mediumistic channeling or the passive states evoked though hypnosis.<br /><br />Instead, the process as I understand it is more like the technique used in the Golden Dawn called the "Assumption of God Forms, "which we use in the Golden Dawn with great effectiveness. The key difference is that the will of the Magician is present at all times. Although the Goddess Form is present and acting through the Magician, the will of the Magician is always present as an observer.Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-15504299207015564212013-01-09T08:13:12.459-08:002013-01-09T08:13:12.459-08:00Thus we see that, contrary to certain claims, putt...<i>Thus we see that, contrary to certain claims, putting oneself into a state of mediumistic receptivity, as in the case of New Age "channeling", not only runs contrary to all traditional Golden Dawn teachings, but is even an outright breech of obligation for traditional Golden Dawn initiates.</i><br /><br />What then about people who are studying the Golden Dawn, maybe even actual members of an Order, who are also Initiates of British Traditional Wicca, who perform a Drawing Down of the Moon, in which the Goddess of the Wica is invoked inthe the body of a Priestess? Or vice versa with the God of the Wica and a Priest?MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15904412888243979076noreply@blogger.com