Monday, August 30, 2010

The Traditional vs. New Age Golden Dawn - David Griffin debates Robert Zink

Most people in the Golden Dawn community are already aware that New Age marketer, Robert Zink, has created a New Age/Golden Dawn hybrid Mr. Zink named the Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn.

New Age Marketer Robert Zink
I personally do not see anything wrong with this. After all, the Golden Dawn community already has a "Regardie" Golden Dawn order, a Thelemic Golden Dawn, and even a Buddhist Golden Dawn. Why not a New Age Golden Dawn order as well?

As a marketer, one really has to give Robert Zink credit. He is most adept at "rebranding" anything successful in the New Age community by giving it a new name and twist to make it his own. In this way, "The Secret" became Robert Zink's, "The Guarantee" (, Reiki became "Ruach Healing" (, and NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) became Robert Zink's "Neuro Linguistic Alchemy" (

All of this is really rather cute and clever marketing to which I have no personal objection whatsoever. Where I do object, however, is when Robert Zink crosses the line to use the Hermetic and Golden Dawn traditions for "get rich quick" schemes.
R. Zink Posing as Mathers

For example, on his Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn website Robert Zink rebrands S.L. MacGregor Mathers' portrait with his own image, as self-proclaimed "Guardian of the True Golden Dawn Tradition." I really see no major harm in this either, despite  the grandiosity.

What I do object to, however, is on Robert Zink's EOGD membership page where Mr. Zink claims he can make you a "full Golden Dawn initiate" from the comfort your armchair without ever leaving your living room. All you need to do is send Mr. Zink $200 and poof - you will become a "full 'Astral' Golden Dawn initiate. This kind of nonsense not only cheapens the Golden Dawn tradition. It gives us all a bad name, despite the rebranded "Astral Initiation" Mr. Zink invented. 

Most readers of this blog are aware that the Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega, and our outer order, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn have for years been promoting a vision of the Hermetic tradition that transcends the published Golden Dawn material.

We hold that the aim and purpose not only of the Golden Dawn, but of the entire Hermetic tradition is "Soul growth" in the energetic sense. We also have been teaching how Hermetic Inner Alchemy is a most powerful means of cultivating our energetic natures, in transmuting the matter of our physical bodies (lead) into pure Solar energy (gold), with the aim of achieving conscious immortality.

Many of you have  have followed the debate about these things for some time now here on this blog, and have also read the recent discourses of Master R.C. You have also witnessed first hand the difficulty to clearly communicate these notions to a broader public - as well as what a marvelous opportunity for spiritual development they actually represent.

I therefore trust that you can as well understand my disappointment that Robert Zink has now decided to rebrand even Inner Alchemy for yet another of his New Age schemes.

On his Miracle Mentoring website, Robert Zink recently wrote:
You can learn the secrets of inner alchemy to begin turning any area of your life from lead to gold. The results are incredible for the sincere seeker of alchemical transformation who craves a life filled with miracles...
  •  Build a profitable business
  •  Become a millionaire
What? Become a millionaire with Inner Alchemy?! I am greatly saddened to read such nonsense. Why is it that every single time something more about the Hermetic tradition is made public, it is immediately turned on its head and PROSTITUTED by someone?

Since ancient Egypt, Hermetic alchemy has rightfully been called "The Royal Art" of Kings. Inner Alchemy, although it requires great physical discipline and personal sacrifice, is not merely the art of physical transmutation. It is also nothing less than the SCIENCE OF CONSCIOUS IMMORTALITY. For good reason, the methodologies of this most arcane of occult sciences have remained most carefully guarded secrets of the Western esoteric tradition.

To witness the Royal Art of Inner Alchemy, the arcane science of energetic evolution and conscious immortality, rebranded as "how to become a millionaire" - shames me to be associated with Mr. Zink in any way, which sadly I am since we each lead Golden Dawn orders.

Never before have the vast differences between Robert Zink's approach to the Golden Dawn and mine been so readily discernible, as well as between what we each teach in the orders we lead.

The HOGD/AO and I teach "Soul growth," the development of your energetic nature, with the aim of eventually attaining conscious immortality.

Robert Zink, on the other hand, teaches that the true purpose of Inner Alchemy is how to ...

As I said at the outset of this article, I have nothing against the notion of a hybrid New Age-Golden Dawn order. If Bob Zink wants to become the Tony Robbins of the Golden Dawn, that is his own business. This stuff no doubt has a market out there - good for the part-timers and the gullible ...

... But all this has nothing to do with magic or with the Golden Dawn - And this certainly is nothing for serious seekers!

The difference between what Golden Dawn students learn from Robert Zink - rather than from the HOGD/AO and myself - has never been clearer.

- David Griffin


  1. I had shared in a previous email that I was NOT going to post my experiences with the EOGD on my personal
    This post is a perfect example of the 'caveat emptor' one must hold when evaluating Golden Dawn orders. If Zink's 'version' of the Golden Dawn is so valid, ect., then why does he need to tweak and pirate other well-known practices out of the current? Am I the only one to whom this answer is obvious?

  2. I too agree he uses the GD to promote his financial schemes. Unfortunately, I had sent him money in the beginning...I know, I let myself get drawn in. It is my fault, but still he is very persuasive in promoting himself.

  3. I really had a deep belly laugh when I saw the image of The Simpson's "Sideshow Bob" associated with Robert Zink's New Age schemes! I never thought of it before, but Sideshow Bob seems to fit pretty well.
    I joined the Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn to learn magick. I was also promised a "members only" Yahoo forum to talk about magick with other EOGD members. What did I get instead on this "magick" forum? Reams of Sideshow New Age hype like Bob's letter below that I got on the private EOGD forum

    May 12, 2010
    Brethren, I have a magical opportunity and in order to take advantage of this remarkable opportunity I am willing to offer the first 10 members of our Order THE GUARANTEE ( 6 cd set based on the Emerald Tablet of Hermes ) for the discounted price listed on the website, and if you are one of the 10 and do this before Thursday and 12 Midnight, I will provide you every other CD Program that I have listed on my website... FREE! I want to track how this program works. This results will be used by an independent marketing company. Your downloading of the GUARANTEE is a promise that you will use the GUARANTEE for 30 days and write a 1 page report on your results. When you download the Guarantee 6 cd audio program made by me, you will again receive access to all the other CDs but you must write me at: and let me know you downloaded the program. I am giving you hundreds of dollars of audio on angels, healing and other related topic.
    SEE THEM ALL ON PERSONAL-MAGIC .COM Here is where you download and learn more about the GUARANTEE. theguarantee .info / YOU can see the other audio programs by visiting : personal-magic. com Only 10 people are allowed to take advantage of this.
    GH Frater PDR (Robert Zink)
    PLUS, you will receive every CD program on my website. I will be sending you access to all the other CD programs.

  4. You are correct that Robert Zink is using the concept of Inner Alchemy for "get rich quick" schemes. This is not all he is using it for. The below letter, written by Robert Zink on the the "members only" esotericgoldendawn Yahoo group, uses inner alchemy to sell The Guarantee, New Age CD Seminars, New Age Teleconference seminars, and much more. The letter is authentic and unedited.

    Esotericgoldendawn Members Yahoo Forum
    Subject: The Law of Attraction and the Guarantee
    December 6, 2009
    I will be hosting a one hour workshop via conference call next week on the Guarantee. The Guarantee is the 6 CD program based on the Emerald Tablet of Hermes. All Golden Dawn work is based on the teachings of Hermes, and while this program is not necessary for grade advancement in the Golden Dawn, the truth of the matter is that you may want to begin attracting more miracles in your life right now! Anyone who invests in the Guarantee 6 cd set between now and Wed will receive a free one hour workshop with me. I will share tips on how to better use the program and how to squeeze as much juice out of it as possible. The Guarantee promises that you can begin attracting anything you want within 28 days. Why not find out how.
    Begin doing the INNER ALCHEMY to achieve your goals and dreams in 2010. My conference call will be Wed at 8 p.m. central time and or Thursday at 3 p.m. central time. You can attend one or the other.
    Now, here is how to download your copy of the Guarantee. Simply visit: robertzink. com and under audio products you can get more information on the program. Once you download the program, I will be sending you a reminder for the FREE Teleconference. PLUS, during this conference I will reveal some secrets that will drastically boost you abilities to begin attracting anything you want within 28 days. I want to help as many people as possible achieve their dreams in 2010. Visit my personal site now and begin doing the real alchemy that brings about lasting change. robertzink. com I look forward to talking with you next week on the Teleconference.
    G.H. Frater P.D.R. (Robert Zink)

  5. When trying to sell his life coaching services to me and to other EOGD members, Bob wrote:

    "I just bought a 40,000 business with all the inventory with no money down, no mandatory payments and a strong
    customer base. Most people would have thought I was nuts. But I did it and you can do even more..."

    Does that not sound like Sideshow Bob? But wait! It gets worse when Bob starts selling "psychic services" to his Golden Dawn members.

    Esotericgoldendawn Members Yahoo Forum
    January 24, 2010
    Fraters and Sorors,
    I will be using a number of metaphysical tools today to provide you your reading for 2010. We will go either quater
    by quater or month by month. We will cover the five primary points in our life for 2010
    This an not an other tarot reading. Much of the reading will not even use the tarot, altho I will use the Ibis/Thoth
    spread along with the five pat GD psread and invocaton.
    I am 98% accurate. I suggest that if you are a call to Terry and I suggest you book a full hour. She will go
    over details. with you. I also suggest you have a pen an paper to get the most of the details I will give you.
    This is your year...2010
    G.H. Frater P.D.R.
    This one day opprotunity to get your yearly complete reading is presented by the Temple of Isis and Ibis Universe
    Wellness & Positive Change Center

  6. How about Angelic Healing Touch Oracle Certification? Does that not sound like a scheme worthy of Sideshow Bob?

    Esotericgoldendawn Members Yahoo Forum
    Become a Certified Oracle of Angelic Healing Touch
    February 6, 2010
    Greetings in Light,
    Some people say there is a shift taking place in our world. These are people that are in touch with the unified field of which we are all apart of. This shift may be very subtle, but as humans begin to think in terms of love rather than war, in terms of spiritual prosperity rather than poverty, the unifield field begins to shift. Each thought creates a ripple in this field. Angels have worked though prophets, Sages, Magi and Seekers of Light since the beginning of man moving shifting from crawling to walking. Now man is ready to fly. Not in the physical sense, but in the esoteric sense.
    Our Order has always taught the use of Angels and ofcourse the most important contact in that connection to your own Higher Genius. Angelic Touch came through over 35 years of contact with Angels. There has been one angel that acts as a central core to call on any number of millions of angels that might be needed for specialized kind of healing. Imagine having the ability to clear your sphere of sensation and to bring in a specialized angel that would connect to everything you know about healing and to angels throughout the universe for healing?
    This is exactly what happens. I have already got so many calls and letters from people who are doing basic Angelic
    Touch work from our 1 day workshop at Isis. This workshop was basic, however if the principals are applied, the
    angels will do remarkable things. While this workshop is not purely Golden Dawn and not required for members, members seem to get the most out of it.
    The two day workshop coming up in April will be a MIRACLE WEEKEND. People that attend this workshop will
    experience Angelic Touch beyond anything imagined.
    If you are a GD member, a practioner of Light, a Reiki healer, or Ruach Healer, than this workshop is a way of
    empowering what you are doing beyond anything you currently experience.
    Come up for the weekend. We have a wonderul venue. Beautiful rooms, an experience to remember. Plan on seeing, hearing, and feeling the power of Angelic Healing.
    In the Light of Angels,
    G.H. Frater P.D.R.

  7. You might be telling yourself that all of this is separate from the Golden Dawn, so "so what?" Well, its not. Look at this one selling Ruach Healing seminars at the Equinox ceremony of the Temple of Isis Mighty Mother.

    Equinox workshop at the Temple of Isis in L.A.
    February 8, 2010
    Greetings in Light,
    The Equinox will be a special weekend at the Temple of Isis Mighty Mother. This weekend will contain everything
    you could expect. It is worth flying out to attend.
    1. You will seen the new Grand Temple of our Order. Plans are already underway to share this Temple in a special way with you. You will love the sound of your voice vibrating in this Temple.
    2. You will attend a weekend certified Ruach Healing workshop. This workshop will bring take you into the world of Qabalah Healing and the teachings of Hermes. You will become a full certified Ruach Healer.
    3. You will be a ground zero as our Order prepares for the global shift of increased Light coming into the world. This is a time for Light Workers to come together.
    4. Friday Night will include a special evening revealing many secrets and a general evening of magic.
    People are already making plans to attend from all over the country. If you live anywhere within the sound of this
    email. I would like to personally invite you to attend this special weekend. Become a Healer. There is no higher
    Call Terri at 714-612-3947
    If she is not home, please leave your information and if you are planning on flying from out of town...allow her to help you.
    I really would suggest you do it now. This event is filling up faster than almost any event we have had.
    G.H. Frater P.D.R. (Robert Zink)
    Imperator General of the Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn
    P.S. A few of you may want to spend some time with us in Southern California

  8. How about "Enochian Angelic DNA 24 strand activation?" Is this not one of the most creative New Age rebranding schemes Bob Zink has come up with so far? What I would like to know, is how much Sideshow Bob fleeced the poor members of Ptah temple for this? I wonder how much extra he charged for the "angel readings" he made "available" as well. Am I the only EOGD member fed with these scams?

    Esotericgoldendawn Members Yahoo Forum
    Subject: Attention members of Temple Ptah
    September 28, 2010
    ...I will do an entire class on Friday Night on the kabalah, Hermetics and the Law of Attraction. This will be
    available to every member of Ptah. On Saturday I will bring you the most dynamic program of Psychic Development,
    including Enochian Angelic DNA 24 stand activation performed on everyone, plus an Angel Readings will be
    available; YOU WILL LEARN the same skill that saved my life from being run over by a car many years ago. You
    will learn how to contact angels in ways beyond what you are taught in class. This is advanced work, and I would
    encourage all to attend.
    I look forward to seeing you at PTAH on Oct 9th, 10th 11th. Pass the word.
    G.H. Frater P.D.R. (Robert Zink)
    Imperator General of the Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn

  9. This all sounds like a sad parody on the Golden Dawn!

  10. Sideshow Bob will never get it right. I hear he's in San Francisco right now. He screwed up again. It's common knowledge that Mary Kreske got wise and kicked is sorry freeloading butt out, only after he drained her bank account, ruined her reputation and scammed the owners of the Violet Flame in LaCrosse, Wi.. I hear the local D.A. in LaCrosse is looking for him for theft by taking regarding some of the store merchandise that was paid for by the original owner.

    Right now, he's in pretty pitiful shape: He can't go back to Seattle because Raphela and the cops are looking to jail him for not paying his child support for Heru. Skipping out on your kids again Bob? Thought you would have learned about that after having to hide from your wife and kids in Vegas when you skipped town to move to Downey, Ca. He can't go back to Los Angeles either because he screwed Edward out of $600.00 for a plane ticket to his wedding for which Bob became "no-show" Bob. Normal for Bob, believe me. He also got the Isis temple in the hole for about $8000.00 by taking all of the correspondance money off the website for himself. Another "normal" source of income for Sideshow Bob. Join the EOGD with a job and good credit, and Bob will leave you on the street with no job and no credit. Right now, nobody at Isis even has a job so the rent still isn't getting paid. It's only a matter of time before Isis "falls" and most of them blame it on Bob. Nobody in the EOGD who has know him for any length of time wants anything to do with him... Soon to come: Actual emails from his own second order forum calling him out on his lies and theft of temple funds.

    I can't wait until he is either dead or in jail. On the other hand, who would we have for a source of entertainment then? I'm sure he will meet some disgruntled ex-member in jail who will be willing to upload us some pics with his new "prison-husband". NLP won't save him from those Folsom guys; soon he'll be "Jailhouse Queen Bob". We could help this along with a little tip to the IRS about all of the income that flows into his pay-pal accounts. Wonder if he paid tax on ANY of it? I think we already know the answer to that one!

  11. Sideshow Bob channels Thoth, a member of the EOGD's Third Order. This is some recent "lie on the couch, do a valium and wake up later" channeling. Enjoy:


    NOEL requested that the following contact with Thoth be shared with the entire Body...


    Show me the grip

    Speak to me of the light. Why do you fear that which you call forth? Why do you call forth the light, but you cling to darkness?

    Now, you shall take my word and you shall give it form, and in that form, you shall call it light. That form shall be created by your unified will. Do you know of the light and of the truth? Unity by its very nature defines that there cannot be two. Therefore, there must always be one.

    Do you know there is a refractal image of the sun and the moon that happens on the reverse side of the equinox? The sun is seen looking only at the moon, and the reverse is true. What does this mean???

    -What of Rome?

    Look up with me at the stars, can you see them? I know you can. Will you? Your mission lies in the stars in the heaven. You speak of Rome. Before you can speak of Rome, you must speak of your own order. What do you bring to Rome? Bring your magics. You shall not travel to Rome as mere beggars, but as my emissaries of magic. As they say, let the dead bury the dead. You bring life to a dying world. You are more needed by them than you need them. You do not know this do you? Bring the two forces together. Bring magics to Rome. This is all that is asked. And two forces shall become one. You shall absorb their power in your order for goodness and light. Never to be used for evil and control. And a new wave of magics shall spread in four directions and your will will be at the heart of it. Have I made myself clear?

    -Who should go?

    Only two were ever confirmed. You know this. The Greek and your Chief. In all work, there must be a magnetic north. Combine that force of those who will go with prayer, supplication, and I beg you, magics. This is my will. That you return to your magical skin. Put it on your back and wear it.

    -Is our chief making the right decision in moving to Lacrosse?

    The location on the physical plan is ambiguous and means nothing to me. Should it to you. What concerns me is his focus.

    -What should his focus be?

    In your solar system there are many great planets, moons, and there are shooting stars that fly by and burn out quickly [laughter]

    There are many great moons, he chooses to be the sun. If not, let him be a shooting star. There is no in-between. There is no half-magics for any of you. He must be the sun.

    -And how can we rid ourselves of Griffen?

    You know that a dying star has no power except on its last breath. You defeat him on his last breath and pull him in. Or you can expand your light. Let the world know that you teach the forces of light. Expose his lies at every turn. Do not fear his battles and arrows. Become transparent with light. With the power of the pen and words in the minds of those who seek truth. My breath shall be with you.


    You shall call your healing centers Ibis Universe. I shall breath upon them. Do not sell your soul for money. There will be those who offer you money and will ask for your soul. And I shall take my breath and you will lose my breath. Trust in me and you shall see the great healing shall return to this earth. Especially after Rome.

    May my blessings be upon you. May you follow in the footsteps of the gods.

  12. Rebuttale of all comments on this furum:

    Since the writing of this Blog I have received notice from another GD group that I am side show Bob, or a late night t.v. salesman. While I have nothing against good marketing, I wonder if this kind of propaganda of name calling and such is where we really want to go as a Golden Dawn community? Just a thought from side show Bob.

    Good ole' Bob...How's you an' Ms. Kresk* doin' these days??? She movin' out or you movin' in, or is it the other way 'round?

  13. Posts from Robert Zink's own inner forum showing how disgusted his adepts are with his actions:

    From: "gdms_moderator"

    Ave Soror,

    Tryst is not built overnight, sometimes it takes months and years. I am dedicated to building that trust with you and with everyone in my life.

    I know that some people want me to give up my extra activities, or my Order income. The extra activities to promote more and better quality books and CDs will continue. I have a plan to professionally transform some of the income if not all the income to the Temple of Isis, but I will not simply turn over my program that I put 25 years into overnight without building a another way to generate income.
    I do not believe that there is any force that can defeat us, as we stand in the Light as BBB



    --- In, wrote:
    > Frater,
    > I want to believe so badly that you do believe this, but your actions have made it such that, for now, I cannot believe anything you say because you've said so much that you've never done. The actions you actually do, those are the only testament to your true beliefs, and those are what everyone is watching and waiting for. If you believe the leadership of this order can and must do better, then make it better.
    > If you believe that the adepts of this order are equal, then why do you continually say things like "I dont have time to read a 3 page email from an adept that has only been in the second order for a couple of months." Or that there are actually two second orders, etc?
    > If you want to call the Temple of Isis getting the money it was supposed to get in the first place without most of it being collected by you, Positive progress, I guess you can call it that, but it wouldnt be that way if it were't for some adepts that finally put their foot down. The real positive progress is that the adepts are not afraid to communicate anymore. >

  14. Where is Robert Zink living these days? Right here:,+Benicia,+CA+94510&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=32.114675,77.34375&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=1043+Grant+St,+Benicia,+Solano,+California+94510&ll=38.045624,-122.13634&spn=0,0.018883&z=16&layer=c&cbll=38.045587,-122.136238&panoid=DCHEDgCaUMU0alM0NlXj_A&cbp=12,0.94,,1,-1.85

  15. You know, the real problem with Robert Zink is simple: He is openly negating every Golden Dawn or Spiritual principle that he has ever learned or taught in the past. Someone who truly lives what they believe never has to scam others for basic needs the way that he does. No wonder the whole community, even to his own adepts, is so disgusted with him.

    Here's the latest person who is quite draining her bank account and ruining her personal life for him the way the rest of us once did:

    Scroll down the the bottom of the page to see her, and notice the address match to the google link that was recently put up here.

  16. Well, Sideshow Bob finally got kicked out of his digs in San Francisco. Seems the nice lady, whom he promised adepthood to, got wise to him and kicked him out of the place in the back of the new-age massage parlor that he was "couch-surfing" in. I guess that means he either has to check into a homeless shelter or move in with Edward (aka Frater BT) down in LA. Wonder how Ed's new wife is going to take to having Robert for a new room-mate? Who knows, he might just convince her that she does like it... He's pretty good at convincing women to do a lot of things in the short run. Big problem with being an old con artist: Age means you are no longer as cute as you were 20 years ago, and any stage magician knows that you never do the same tricks repeatedly for the same audience. They get wise, especially when age takes away your hair and good looks...

    Good luck Bobby.

  17. Here is proof that there is a serious rift between the adepts of the EOGD and Robert Zink.
    These emails are from Robert's EOGD forum and pretty much reflect that he is fighting being expelled from the EOGD by the rest of its body of Adepti:

    Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 12:53:40 AM
    Subject: [GDMS] Replacement Forum

    Avete Fratres et Sorores,

    We regret to inform you that this forum must be closed down due to irremovable accounts that are being used by unauthorized persons to conduct personal commercial business in violation of policies that have been approved by the Chiefs of the Second Order. A new forum has been created and invites to it will be sent over the next couple of days. The new forum will comply with the standards that have been approved by the Chiefs of the Second Order including the prohibition against advertisement of or testimonials for any commercial products or services unrelated to the official Work of the Order. It will be primarily for the discussion of the Sacred Mysteries and Order Studies and secondarily for administrative announcements and organizing classes, meetings and group ritual work. This older forum will no longer have any connection with the Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn and all accounts that can be are to be removed from it effective immediately. We look forward to assisting you with your Great Work on the new forum. If you do not recieve your invite to the new forum within one week, please email

    In Love, Truth, and Knowledge,
    The Chiefs of the Second Order

    From: GDMS Moderator
    Sent: Thu, February 3, 2011 10:21:44 AM
    Subject: Important Message to All Members

    Important Message

    February 1, 2011



    Recently our private members forum was seriously compromised and members were removed and asked to join another forum. THIS WAS NOT AN OFFICIAL ACT AUTHORISED BY either THE GH FRATER TDL or MYSELF, GH FRATER PDR. There seem to be several invitations from a variety of sources claiming that a particular forum is the new OFFICIAL MEMBERS-ONLY FORUM. This is not the case and may be a phishing expedition.

    Only an invitation from the Esoteric Golden Dawn Moderator constitutes an official invitation back to the forum. There is only one forum that is the OFFICIAL MEMBERS-ONLY FORUM and it is the GDMS MEMBERS (Esoteric Golden Dawn) forum. It is this forum that is the only authorized members-only forum by the Chiefs of the Second Order, including GH Frater PDR, Imperator General of the Order, and GH Frater TDL, who is the Imperator of the Temple of Isis and Chief Adept of the Second Order (the Chiefs of the Second Order).

    We are deeply sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused you. It is critical to know that if you receive an invitation from any other forum, it is NOT an official forum, NOT part of the Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn and you should ignore this invite. THIS MAY BE A PHISING SCAM BEING USED TO OBTAIN MEMBERS NAMES AND INFORMATION.

    What you should know:
    It may take up to 2 weeks to receive an invitation back to the members-only forum.
    Order members who receive this message and have not received an invitation back to the forum should click on one of these links to request to have forum access restored:
    Send an email:
    ALL on-line classes are ONLY advertised on the OFFICIAL Forum, including the new classes that are now being taught by GH Frater PDR.
    If you are receiving this letter, please go to the website and see that this is indeed an official announcement.
    On Behalf of the Chiefs of the Second Order,

    GH Frater PDR, Imperator General of the Order and
    GH Frater TDL (Temple of Isis Mighty Mother), Chief Adept of the Second Order of the Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn

  18. Well, since it's all over alt.magick, it might as well be here also: Robert Zink has officially been expelled from the EOGD by about a 95% vote from his own adepts. Their reasons are stated in Robert Zink's expulsion letter here:

    I guess Robert had better cook up something with his main squeeze, Mary Kreske, and find another group of pockets to pick. Or, how about this?-Maybe Robert should finally grow up and get a job! Everybody who has been giving him money obviously is either independantly wealthy or has a job of their own. Of course some gave their all to him and he helped them lose the job they had.

    Guess what? The chickens are finally coming home to roost Bobby, and they aren't moving when they have to crap either...

  19. I became a member of the EOGD only to be disappointed by the lack of meaningful information, teaching, or mentoring. After spending nearly $200 for membership, I was presented with a CD containing the same stuff that is in Regardie's books. Then I was assigned two mentors who acted like they could barely tolerate my presence, let alone do any actual mentoring. After months of feeling completely unwelcome, enduring snide remarks from so-called mentors, and nauseatingly prolific spam from the yahoo group hawking everything from over priced angel cds to get rich quick oils, I decided to wash that cult right outta my hair.

    I don't blame them for kicking PDR out, but from my experience, EOGD is so cliquish I am surprised they have any kind of growth at all. They violate their own tenants by openly criticizing other esoteric orders, and if a member should happen to belong to another order they act like it's a bad case of herpes, keeping a 'safe' distance so as not to infect their 'current'.

  20. My understanding is that Zink managed to tempt about 100 people back on the forum with his rubbish that he and Ramsey are the real order as so designated by third order contact. I think the main "third order contact" is PDR high on his valium again. I wonder who sends it to him in the mail now? For whomever does or did it, be reminded that valium is a class III narcotic and it is a felony to send to someone without a valid perscription. If you get caught and end up in jail, do you think he will even take your call for bail money? Bet we all know the answer to that one. The only "third order" Ramsey knows is his "pseudo-daddy" Robert. In all the years I knew him, I never saw Ramsey show any ability to make an adult decision on his own or handle any kind of real confrontation or dialog. He can hide behind Robert all he wants, that won't give him either enlightenment or pay the temple rent over there at Isis. Probably the best step Ramsey could ever take toward full adulthood, and maybe enlightenment would be to join the others and wash his hands of Robert and Mary for good. Wonder if Mary knows just how close Robert is to being thrown in jail for all of the fraud he has committed. It's a little late for statuory rape, but all of the tax and credit card fraud is still fresh evidence. Hey Robert, what about that Discover Card you took out on your own son's credit file and ran up $15,000.00 on it? You think your son likes that now that he is finding all of this out as an adult? I think not...

  21. There's a copy of Robert Zink's latest appeal letter that he sent out to the mailing list he has left and a lively thread about it on alt.magick. Find it here:

    It also seems that Robert is using old credit card numbers from his website that his members used for payment of EOGD order dues to make unauthorized charges for other things he needs, like snacks, drinks, gas etc. One member (or ex-member) found about $400.00 in unauthorized charges from him on her card and filed a police report as well as reported the fraud to the credit card company. I wish more people that he defrauds out of their cash would do that. Just the fact that he obtained these credit card numbers off the internet and probably runs them through pay pal, or online in some other way, makes him guilty of wire fraud on top of just plain credit card fraud. This guy is really showing his criminal side.

  22. Happily Robert Zink has been ejected from the EOGD by his own adepts for this very reason.
    Robert Zink is no longer part of the Golden Dawn community.
    He used and abused the members and conned them out of considerable money. Now finally that its ended. Whatever he does next is far removed from the Golden Dawn tradition.
    we can all celebrate, finally!
    A former EOGD member.