tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post7468093036337022914..comments2023-09-01T10:08:28.177-07:00Comments on The Golden Dawn Blog: The Alchemy and the Golden Dawn Debate (featuring Frater Lux E Tenebris, representing the Secret Chiefs of the Third Order of the Golden Dawn)Imperator David Griffinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-65456739297253340952012-02-23T00:39:50.423-08:002012-02-23T00:39:50.423-08:00The article is very inspiring to me although I am ...The article is very inspiring to me although I am not eager to take sides in such debates. It might contain exactly the right clue for me at this time. Thank you!<br />I hope this is the right place for a certain question that's beginning to form:<br />If one has gained experience with other traditions like Buddhism, Existentialism, Sparean Magic, already having had insights and having produced results how can one relate to the brotherhood best? Where is ones position in relation to it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-79479112308579523902011-10-05T02:54:01.974-07:002011-10-05T02:54:01.974-07:00Funny thing about Pat. He is doing exactly what he...Funny thing about Pat. He is doing exactly what he condemns! It is a most bizarre and ugly display. Do you think he would normally allow a post like this?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-91264909264827191162011-10-02T16:03:00.197-07:002011-10-02T16:03:00.197-07:00If only the rules of academia WERE followed in the...If only the rules of academia WERE followed in the Golden Dawn community. Fat chance of that happening though. Academic rigor was abandoned long by most Golden Dawn reconstructionists, who redefine key Golden Dawn, Hermetic, and Rosicrucian concepts according to whim. Key GD concepts they have completely redefined include even alchemy and initiation!<br /><br />As for talking across fora, this is the only way at all to comment on the eccentric arguments Mr. Zalewski brings into print as "Golden Dawn" since Mr. Zalewksi only posts on his own forum, where he does not allow any dissenting voices at all.<br /><br />For example, no only I am not allowed to post there, but also renowned bloggers <a href="http://gyllenegryningen.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Sincerus Renatus</a> and <a href="http://heavenswithinearth.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Frater AIT</a>.Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-72185950646143933342011-10-02T15:53:53.312-07:002011-10-02T15:53:53.312-07:00What a disappointment. I had expected a fraternal ...What a disappointment. I had expected a fraternal debate about Golden Dawn alchemy. Instead, I see only evasive rhetoric from Frater Zalewksi and no willingness to engage in real, meaningful dialogue. It would be much better if the Golden Dawn factions really did start talking to one another instead of merely talking past one another on their own fora and blogs. The Golden Dawn community deserves better than this from its leaders. It is clear that more than one Golden Dawn faction has something substantial to say in the realm of alchemy. Sadly, however, for the Golden Dawn community, it appears that the dialogue will never be able to advance since it appears that Frater Zalewski is completely unwilling to engage in any meaningful dialogue about alchemy at all. I am deeply disappointed in this behavior from one who sets himself in print as an "expert" in this arena. Certainly this would not be tolerated in academia where there are established rules and protocols regarding peer review.Sybil de Lariahttp://academicwitchungagged.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-75491080862755534962011-10-02T08:50:40.500-07:002011-10-02T08:50:40.500-07:00@ Anonymous CRC
Gosh. It seems that certain peopl...@ Anonymous CRC<br /><br />Gosh. It seems that certain people are so terrified of a fraternal, scholarly debate about divergent approaches to Golden Dawn alchemy that they are wheeling out the old Golden Dawn Flame War defamation trolls again.<br /><br />This merely underscores the inherent weakness of their philosophical position.Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-31167556299443905912011-10-02T06:33:27.059-07:002011-10-02T06:33:27.059-07:00David Griffin, You are so full of yourself. You do...David Griffin, You are so full of yourself. You do not belong to our circle of initiates. <br /><br />C.R.C.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-36380152763379872072011-10-01T08:31:04.032-07:002011-10-01T08:31:04.032-07:00Actually, the truth is far simpler. Mr. Zalewski&#...Actually, the truth is far simpler. Mr. Zalewski's statement is, in reality, but a cheap rhetorical tactic. By branding academic style peer reviewers that disagree with his bizarre arguments and his New Age/pop psychology approach to alchemy as "naysayers," Mr. Zalewksi is merely attempting to divert the factual discussion, thus hoping to dismiss the substantial, negative peer review of his book and avoid any meaningful dialogue/debate regarding the actual meaning of Hermetic alchemy within the Rosicrucian and Golden Dawn traditions.<br /><br />Since Mr. Zalewksi knows quite well that the New Age view of "Golden Dawn alchemy" he espouses in his book is indefensible in a straightforward and forthright discussion, he therefore instead resorts to such transparent rhetorical tactics.<br /><br />Despite the rhetoric, the fact remains that Pat Zalewksi has written a book on so-called "Golden Dawn alchemy", basing his entire understanding of alchemy merely on Jungian psychology, mixed with New Age channeled material from an alleged disincarnate entity called "Guru Das." I am really looking forward to see how Zalewski attempts to defend such an eccentric, freshly baked approach to alchemy, that completely abandons any semblance of relationship to the Hermetic or Rosicrucian traditions.Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-85286369894443350182011-10-01T08:28:04.304-07:002011-10-01T08:28:04.304-07:00Ave,
I believe it may be good to consider that he...Ave,<br /><br />I believe it may be good to consider that he may be conditioning his statement FOR materialists to be helpful, as well as snarky ;) By affecting them emotionally with a turn-around stab like his, the "naysayers" open themselves up for examining his statement with more interest. There's a little treat inside: "truth versus perception and intent" or what the naysayers are ACTUALLY doing for him verses what they THOUGHT they were doing. It's multilayered, just like a good Qabalist should make it ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-23457505966360060942011-10-01T08:23:10.360-07:002011-10-01T08:23:10.360-07:00Pat Zalewski wrote ...
"Hi.
I just want to th...Pat Zalewski wrote ...<br />"Hi.<br />I just want to thank all those naysayers re: my Alchemy book. The odd thing about this is that when it is discussed in a negative way by some people, the book sales go up. Please keep up the good work!<br />Pat"<br /><br />If this is a true statement by Mr Zalewski then I am very saddened. I have read some of his books and I was convinced that he is a sincere psychonaut. Could I be wrong? How is it possible a main representative of a spiritual movement in 20th/21st century make such a meterialist claim? How much more time will it take to come back up to the ancient hellenic ideals? Statements like the above make me doubt if ever.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-38347609283337255042011-09-30T18:55:15.541-07:002011-09-30T18:55:15.541-07:00@ Frater N
I really do not care if Pat Zalewkski ...@ Frater N<br /><br />I really do not care if Pat Zalewkski makes money off of his alchemy book or not. In fact, I wish his pocket book well!<br /><br />My mission is a different one, however. I am involved in finally bringing true understanding of what Hermetic alchemy is really all about to America. Hermetic alchemy is a major spiritual treasure waiting to be fully understood and utilized in our country.<br /><br />Thus, my only objection to Pat's New Age alchemy book is that it adds yet even more confusion to the mix regarding the true nature and value of alchemy. He is welcome to make all of the money he likes selling snake-oil. If Pat wants to play Krusty the Clown to Zink's Sidewhow Bob, he is welcome to it!<br /><br />I only object to the confusion it unnecessarily causes.Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-85988503199623506962011-09-30T18:49:18.247-07:002011-09-30T18:49:18.247-07:00@ Anonymous
I disagree with both you and with Rub...@ Anonymous<br /><br />I disagree with both you and with Rubaphilos that Pat is only out to make money. We all need to live. So what?<br /><br />I, for one embrace diversity in our Golden Dawn community. Thus there is plenty of room even for a vision of Golden Dawn alchemy based from the outset material from a New Age channeled entity called "Guru Das."<br /><br />I am sure that there are plenty of people out there who are interested in yet another New Age Golden Dawn order. Those folks will feel right at home in Pat Zalewski's order with its New Age alchemy channeled by "Guru Das."<br /><br />It is also important, however, that there be at least one order that still teaches not only classical Golden Dawn teachings, but also Hermetic and Rosicrucian alchemy instead of New Age alchemy.<br /><br />For those students the HOGD/AO is a better fit. Moreover, in the Alpha et Omega you have the added benefit of classical Golden Dawn teachings for the grades above 5=6 as well, where Regardie left off. I mean, classical Golden Dawn teachings rather than stuff made up by PAt Zalewski or channeled from "Guru Das."Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-198786596749514062011-09-30T18:10:04.861-07:002011-09-30T18:10:04.861-07:00@ David,
Why is it that you continue to add fuel ...@ David,<br /><br />Why is it that you continue to add fuel to Pat's fire and help fill his treasury if he is so off track? Attention carries Life Force, so I am puzzled why you direct it towards that which you don't value ?? <br /><br />Is it not the Magician's Work to put forth one's best and highest, rather than chase down all ideas one finds to be inadequate? <br /><br />Is it not the case that those ideas filled with Truth and Life will flourish and grow and those with error will eventually wither? <br /><br />I understand a garden has to be weeded at times, but it can be done with little fanfare, while the greatest amount of attention is put into the plants, trees and flowers we wish to see fill our garden.Frater Nnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-81946594279004838872011-09-30T12:26:19.268-07:002011-09-30T12:26:19.268-07:00A sure sign of the bankrupcy of ideas:
When it be...A sure sign of the bankrupcy of ideas:<br /><br />When it becomes clear in a debate that you do not know what you are talking about ...<br /><br />... Proclaim victory and refuse to debate!<br /><br />This so far seems all that Pat Zalewski really has to say. How about debating IDEAS on their merits instead of spouting such nonsense for a change?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-77438120130082996282011-09-30T10:53:50.906-07:002011-09-30T10:53:50.906-07:00@ Pat Zalewski
Thank you, Pat, for confirming wha...@ Pat Zalewski<br /><br />Thank you, Pat, for confirming what your old friend Rubaphilos said above, namely that:<br /><br />"Pat Zalewski once said to me that he only publishes for the money and doesn't really care about the content of the books."Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-26209481525961819222011-09-30T10:50:44.235-07:002011-09-30T10:50:44.235-07:00Hi.
I just want to thank all those naysayers re: m...Hi.<br />I just want to thank all those naysayers re: my Alchemy book. The odd thing about this is that when it is discussed in a negative way by some people, the book sales go up. Please keep up the good work!<br />PatPat Zalewskihttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-group/message/14588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-52159396950718570632011-09-30T10:41:11.963-07:002011-09-30T10:41:11.963-07:00Such a wonderful article to help people understand...Such a wonderful article to help people understand ! :) It is just a shame that no matter how many times someone is generous enough to serve the Truth on a platter, even if it cannot be naked Truth for the sake of the sacred, those that contest that very Truth are those that make assumptions blind-folded, in an utter dark vacuum, devoid of Truth & Knowledge !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-55133171237033075752011-09-29T18:18:51.299-07:002011-09-29T18:18:51.299-07:00It was magic, a well constructed and most personal...It was magic, a well constructed and most personal ritual divesting myself of my personal identity under the light of a total Solar eclipse, to receive the full blast of the with the explosion of light following the diamond ring effect that granted me my first complete illumination. It was sheer grace, as a consequence of humble aspiration and sincere willingness to leave EVERYTHING behind for even a moment contact with my Solar Self, that allowed me, albeit briefly and fleetingly, to directly identify with the entire universe.<br /><br />This tiniest of illuminations was enough to change my life forever. From that moment on, I have been on the quest of permanent self-realization. It was this tiny spark of illumination, which as well opened the doors for me with the Third Order of the Golden Dawn, which contacted me not long thereafter.<br /><br />I am living proof of the truth of the Hermetic adage that:<br /><br />"When the student is ready, the Master will appear."Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-26826766464897675142011-09-29T15:19:01.434-07:002011-09-29T15:19:01.434-07:00Simplicity is the Seal of Truth!
Somehow i love t...Simplicity is the Seal of Truth!<br /><br />Somehow i love these debates at the web, since they cause the hermetic masters to speak out publicly.<br /><br />I also like the idea that whether alchemists or magicians- they arrive at the same goal.<br /><br />We should not forget that when practising the reformed curriculum of the Outer of the A.O. one is already doing a lot of energetic work, and that daily.<br />This was not the case in former times, when the candidate was only balancing his Sphere by the initial influx of elemental energies by initiation and doing a bit of meditative work.<br /><br />It was only hinted at more advanced techniques, for example in 0=0, when the Hiereus affirms that the names of the three main officers of the degree commence with the latter "H"... or in the secret of two contending forces and one that unites them. <br /><br />Also later on, in the ideas about Sandalphon and Metatron; the double letters and what they represent in man; the teachings about the Fall; the diagram of Venus on the Tree, etc.<br /><br />I think especially in 1=10 is hidden something very special- something about the true nature of the internal Stone, although veiled by symbols.<br /><br />But with the daily excersises of the reformed curriculum one already not only learns theoretically but also practical to systematically raise and move and intensify magical energy in and through the body! <br /><br />Although these practises may be much less effective and potent than direct solar techniques which are taught at a far greater level, i think it IS already an alchemical practice to raise and feel the fire of the secret forces inside the body.<br /><br />Daily exercise with this "fire" is the minework that is able to lay bare the solar spark that is buried deep down in every human being.<br /><br />This spark is like a magnet, that, when having gained enough strength after decades of persistent work on it, is not only able to cause the solar Self to descend from its throne, but also to cause changes in the outside world that border on wonderwork.<br /><br />"Visita Interiora Terrae Rectificando Invenies Occultum Lapidem"- and this Lapis is the core of matter, which, by its very nature, is pure Love. <br /><br />I think you dont need to quench your mind and write books about the Alchemy hidden in the Golden Dawn.<br />You just have to practise perseveringly and see that you dont corrupt your magic with the wrong intentions- then you will have eyes to see.<br />And then you will see that it is all very simple, but at the same time a herculean task-<br />also that you need initiation and contact with a true source.<br />True in the sense that it is leading you safe through this labyrinth, by offering the right answers at the right time, if you are able to ask the right questions.<br /><br />Yours fraternally in L.V.X.,<br />H. Fr. L.e.N.e.Rene Nagualhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05398934639980952525noreply@blogger.com