tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post6032558439851252185..comments2023-09-01T10:08:28.177-07:00Comments on The Golden Dawn Blog: The Llewellyn-Donald Michael Kraig-Concurrence KerfuffleImperator David Griffinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-19760178142596897352013-02-16T09:47:29.807-08:002013-02-16T09:47:29.807-08:00When the sectarian era in GD history is long forgo...When the sectarian era in GD history is long forgotten, this book will still shine. Those who have been knee-jerkingly anti-HOGD/AO authors, would attack ANY publication coming from a member of this Order, without even reading it. That's how sectarianism manifests. Those are the sad facts of recent history. <br /><br />Let's hope that a more mature community is now growing out of the stage of schoolyard bickering; a community where authors are reviewed for their contributions on the basis of merit, not of Order affiliation.<br /><br />Alpha Omega has shown leadership in giving positive reviews of works by some of its own most vituperous critics. That is how community leaders act.Aletheia LVXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17762845110527318958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-82670051329193318942013-02-15T18:15:22.002-08:002013-02-15T18:15:22.002-08:00I haven't located any serious mistakes since I...I haven't located any serious mistakes since I found my copy in Amsterdam a decade ago. There are things I can imagine someone disagreeing with in the sense that they may have another way of doing or not doing a given thing, but that is not due to any error in the book, it is due to differences of OPINION! [As an example, the use of Enochian Calls as accelerators is an option made available in the book, and I don't use them as given - I have another method... but that is not me being right and the book being wrong!]<br /><br />I consider this one of the most important books ever written in the field of Golden Dawn and Rosicrucian Magic, and those who take issue with it are actually saying rather more about who THEY are than they are about the book. Note that after years of sniping hardly any evidence of actual errors has ever been provided.<br /><br />This book is like the pill in the Matrix Movie... and those who don't want to take it, don't have to. ;-)<br /><br />No bad thing actually. Real Magic is not for those with a weak constitution.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08017468994177903518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-68808524057948877652013-02-15T08:39:20.851-08:002013-02-15T08:39:20.851-08:00Considering the fact that, during the past ten yea...Considering the fact that, during the past ten years, i have used the RMM as extensive like nobody else i know so far, i only ONCE saw an insignificant small error. Its long ago and i have to look it up. <br />Yours,<br />VH Frater PRene Nagualhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05398934639980952525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-52331482964567750772013-02-15T08:34:58.799-08:002013-02-15T08:34:58.799-08:00I find it sad that even today there remain people ...I find it sad that even today there remain people who would misuse books, book reviews, and even the Llewellyn blog for sectarian sniping at other Golden Dawn orders. Those who do so, do it at their peril. <br /><br />The greater Golden Dawn community has spoken and we at the Alpha Omega have listened. We have put the terrible flame wars of the past behind us and are focused like a laser beam on our mission of making Magicians.<br /><br />I invite all leaders of Golden Dawn temples to search their hearts to see what their mission truly is. <br /><br />I believe that the true reason why there still remain a few bad apples in our community who continue to try to stir strife misusing book reviews and the Llewellyn blog is because they do not yet clearly understand their mission.<br /><br />What is the mission of the other Golden Dawn orders in our community? I have invited other leaders in our community over and over to share their vision of THEIR mission with the rest of the community.<br /><br />This would be of benefit to everyone and would show true leadership. Sniping in books, reviews, and on blogs shows no leadership at all.<br /><br />Here in the Alpha Omega, we make Magicians. <br /><br />For example, we just announced yesterday the return of S.L. MacGregor Mathers' "The Rites of Isis" as well as "The Rites of Nephthys," ancient Egyptian magical rituals for the Full Moon and the New Moon just given to the AO by the Secret Chiefs. These are the things that further the Golden Dawn tradition, not sectarian sniping.Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-10158647563523450652013-02-15T00:29:02.767-08:002013-02-15T00:29:02.767-08:00I think, Mr Griffin, that you should have stopped ...I think, Mr Griffin, that you should have stopped taking Morgan seriously a couple of posts earlier (or maybe even before). It seems to me, from an objective point of view, that Morgan is just trying very hard to provoke and stir things up.<br /><br />Your posts are very clearly written and I can't find a lot of content nor value in Mr Eckstein's questions and comments. They don't seem very relevant.<br /><br />It is very sad that people write bad reviews about such a beautiful and helpful book as the Ritual Magic Manual, especially if they can't substantiate their critique. But I'm very confident that the RMM stands on its own and will still be a helpful tool for people long after we're all passed away. I don't think that badly written reviews are going to change a lot about this. Remember that a lot of great writers and Artists suffered unfair criticism during their lifetimes, while their work is highly praised in modern times. Maybe some people are just a little ahead of others.<br /><br />Respectfully,<br /><br /><br />Frater V.e.R.Gmizalzohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12395584298269450768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-45839236659469962842013-02-14T15:35:06.524-08:002013-02-14T15:35:06.524-08:00In case any readers are wondering what all of the ...In case any readers are wondering what all of the fuss is about, this discussion began when Morgan accused the AO of treating authors badly. Despite repeated requests for Morgan to justify this statement, he has failed to do so.<br /><br />I therefore reminded him of his own treatment of my book, the Ritual Magic Manual, in his "review" he spammed the internet with and you can read here, among various other places:<br /><br />http://voices.yahoo.com/book-review-ritual-magic-manual-david-griffin-2840321.html<br /><br />The points that Morgan has been challenged to justify are the following statements he made in his "impartial and objective" review:<br /><br />"Unfortunately, during my first perusal of the book, I noticed several rituals that had flaws in their instructions (hexagrams and pentagrams with their lines of direction drawn wrong, etc.); if the book is judged on this standard, it must be given a failing grade." - Morgan Drake Eckstein<br /><br />and <br /><br />"As it stands, the student needs to double check all the ritual instructions; one must treat the book like it is "blinded." - Morgan Drake Eckstein<br /><br />When challenged to justify the above statemnets with concrete examples of these alleged errors, Morgan replied that he does not do editing work for free. I therefore offered to even to pay him to finally get some straight answers.<br /><br />Morgan then claimed there were legal reasons that he could not list the errors he alleged when attacking the book on-line. When challenged to produce these legal reasons, they proved as elusive as a straight answer about the alleged errors he claims fatally flaw the Ritual Magic Manual.<br /><br />So the question remains, are the above fair comments of make or mere political sniping?<br /><br />Why has Morgan been so evasive about substantiating his attack review?<br /><br />Personally, I believe that the Golden Dawn community deserves some straight answers and that the misuse of both books and book reviews for political sniping against other GD orders, ought to end once and for all.<br /><br />If you feel the Ritual Magic Manual has been unfairly attacked, you might want to rate it yourself on Goodreads and on Amazon, and review it yourself on the dozen or so internet venues where Morgan posted his "review."<br /><br />David GriffinImperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-70028409659504632522013-02-14T14:47:57.578-08:002013-02-14T14:47:57.578-08:00Do I understand you correctly that there is no leg...Do I understand you correctly that there is no legal obstacle? Fine, I once again offer you the job of finding ritual errors that need correcting in the new edition of the RMM. In this way:<br /><br />1. You can pay the bill collectors you have been complaining about not being able to pay.<br />2. You will be able to substantiate your negative review so it will no longer appear to be merely misusing book reviews as a Golden Dawn flame war tactic.<br />3. You will have money to come to the Conclave.<br /><br />I still can see no logical reason why you should turn this down. Sure looks like a win-win-win situation to me. Feel free to contact me privately to discuss compensation.<br /><br />David GriffinImperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-1100626220672434912013-02-14T14:33:04.213-08:002013-02-14T14:33:04.213-08:00No, I have no contracts binding me. What stopped m...No, I have no contracts binding me. What stopped me in my tracks was a law that you accused me of violating on numerous occasions--a law that you claim to know better than I do. Morgan Drake Ecksteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09258538066497554895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-75329123248433123232013-02-14T09:06:51.860-08:002013-02-14T09:06:51.860-08:00After careful consideration there is one imaginabl...After careful consideration there is one imaginable legal contract Morgan could be referring to.<br /><br />Morgan, did you sign a 10 year contract promising to attack the Alpha Omega, its authors, and their books on-line and not to show any fraternal respect or to assist the A.O. in any way? Did you likewise agree to keep the contract secret?<br /><br />You realise, of course, that such contracts would be the true source of all the conflict that has plagued the GD community.<br /><br />I certainly hope you were not duped into anything so sinister, but I can see no other logical legal explanation for your behavior.<br /><br />David GriffinImperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-28114661655008168972013-02-13T13:22:09.673-08:002013-02-13T13:22:09.673-08:00I am shocked and alarmed by the notion that ANYONE...I am shocked and alarmed by the notion that ANYONE might be inhibited in working freely in their profession merely because of their involvement in the Golden Dawn. <br /><br />This is certainly NOT the case in the Alpha Omega and I hope it is not really the case in Morgan's Golden Dawn order or in ANY other Golden Dawn order either. Such a notion runs completely contrary to the spirit and teachings of the traditional Golden Dawn.<br /><br />There is NO justification for ANY Golden Dawn order to interfere in the private lives of their members in such a deeply disturbing manner, and I find it difficult to believe that this is truly the case with Morgan either.<br /><br />As Morgan requested, I have discussed this matter with our order's legal department. <br /><br />We can not imagine any concievable legal impediment that would:<br /><br />1. permit Morgan to write a book review attacking an author and his work with unsubstantiated accusations that the manual is "riddled with errors," yet would <br /><br />2. prohibit the same reviewer from substantiating such an apparently sectarian attack and inflammatory accusation, whether he is paid for it or not. <br /><br />Let us recall that Morgan previously used the excuse that "he does not do editing work without payment," which is why I offered even to pay him to provide solid evidence documenting how the RMM is allegedly "riddled with errors." <br /><br />Once I even offered payment for Morgan to substantiate what now appears to have been a purely sectarian attack "review," Morgan now claims he is prevented from substantiating such an attack on a G.D. author and his work for "legal reasons." This is all the more curious considering that it is Morgan himself who has repeatedly accused the Alpha Omega of "attacking authors!"<br /><br />The entire Golden Dawn community, both inside and outside of Morgan's group deserves some straight answers instead of endless excuses and diversionary tactics.<br /><br />Morgan's claim that there are "legal reasons" why he can no longer freely work in his profession because of his involvement in the Golden Dawn raises an entire host of red flags.<br /><br />Morgan, please clearly explain what "legal reasons" arising from your G.D. involvement prevents you from freely working in your profession as a writer to substantiate what presently appears to have been a purely sectarian attack on a Golden Dawn author and their work, merely because they are a member of the Alpha Omega.<br /><br />The greater Golden Dawn community is watching and has a right to know.Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-43955619350487538232013-02-13T10:39:06.671-08:002013-02-13T10:39:06.671-08:00Assuming this is not just avoiding the issue becau...Assuming this is not just avoiding the issue because you are no different to any of those who have historically claimed the RMM is riddled with errors and yet have collectively failed to substantiate this in spite of finding time to write acres of text promoting sectarianism... (all of them out to promote their own sect)...<br /><br />What ever have you signed??? Is it some variety of contractual clause opening you to being sued if you associate in any way with "the competition"? Wouldn't that pretty much indicate that you are being paid under contract by your GD employers?<br /><br />Sheeesh. You have opened a monstrous can of worms with this statement - I urge you to clarify this matter post haste!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08017468994177903518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-12632092273424998302013-02-13T10:24:46.208-08:002013-02-13T10:24:46.208-08:00Really? I am against sectarian strife and for GD P...Really? I am against sectarian strife and for GD Peace and "co-opetition" as a way of remaining strong, relevant and engaged for the next 100+ years.<br /><br />What on EARTH do you find objectionable in that position?<br /><br />Furthermore, I consider this approach the best way forward throughout the esoteric community, GD or non-GD, so your sad movement away from the Order is not really an effective disengagement.<br /><br />We can do without repeating the history of Confucianism vs. Daoism, Sunni vs. Shia, etc. etc. etc. down the ages.<br /><br />I really don't get where you are coming from at all. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06825394799718597885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-13964497123237363602013-02-13T05:56:36.922-08:002013-02-13T05:56:36.922-08:00Morgan writes: "Griffin: When you talk to you...Morgan writes: "Griffin: When you talk to your lawyer, he will inform you that there is a legal reason why I can't accept this job. Thanks for the offer."<br /><br />Respectfully, this is a most interesting comment.<br /><br />I am curious both professionally and personally as to what unseen influence is perturbing your orbit, Morgan. Admittedly ignorant of all of the facts and attendant circumstances, I still can't fathom what law or prior contractual agreement would prevent you from accepting an editing job.<br /><br /><br />S.V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14485713664230077664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-60288627600345296732013-02-12T19:13:11.963-08:002013-02-12T19:13:11.963-08:00Agreed Morgan. I guess what I was saying is that p...Agreed Morgan. I guess what I was saying is that proofing is generally done subsequent to editing, and in that sense they are two different functions. I just did not know if editing or proofing was being discussed with regard to the RMM and any correction of errors.S.V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14485713664230077664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-85398671842170013362013-02-12T16:16:29.733-08:002013-02-12T16:16:29.733-08:00SV: In publishing houses, proofreaders are part of...SV: In publishing houses, proofreaders are part of the editing department. There are actually a dozen plus terms to describe what type of edit is being done. I keep meaning to write about this for my writing blog. Morgan Drake Ecksteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09258538066497554895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-54645071644852495652013-02-12T16:13:26.968-08:002013-02-12T16:13:26.968-08:00Griffin: When you talk to your lawyer, he will inf...Griffin: When you talk to your lawyer, he will inform you that there is a legal reason why I can't accept this job. Thanks for the offer. Morgan Drake Ecksteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09258538066497554895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-75906651788604605802013-02-12T16:08:58.271-08:002013-02-12T16:08:58.271-08:00Reply to Orff: You and I do not see eye to eye abo...Reply to Orff: You and I do not see eye to eye about what is good for the whole community...fortunately, within ten years, my group will not be GD. Morgan Drake Ecksteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09258538066497554895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-60158213797236506122013-02-12T14:35:31.216-08:002013-02-12T14:35:31.216-08:00Actually I DO think that HOGD/AO is the BEST Golde...Actually I DO think that HOGD/AO is the BEST Golden Dawn Order... for ME! I hope that everyone feels the same way about their own choice of Order.<br /><br />It is a waste of time and effort for all concerned when someone joins a group that is wrong for them. If this Order claimed to be the best for everyone... it would be inviting such problems for little real gain. Those who want what we offer, will be best served here. HOGD/AO is where serious Magicians are to be found.<br /><br />Nobody in the West has been in the business of successfully making Magicians for as long as this Order has.<br /><br /><br /><br />Aletheia LVXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17762845110527318958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-16580783501673838252013-02-11T13:23:39.978-08:002013-02-11T13:23:39.978-08:00Morgan, when you respond with: "...So as a co...Morgan, when you respond with: "...So as a community leader, he automatically has to support whatever makes this group look like the best GD group?" - for me it arrives as pure cognitive dissonance.<br /><br />I implied nothing of the kind. I doubt that anyone here thinks that way in fact. What I DO think however, is that GD involved "community leaders" should be acting like real leaders, and thinking of the longer term good for the WHOLE community, and not just for their piece of it.<br /><br />DMK can't disentangle himself from his GD connections, however much he pleads disinterest. Beyond that, the wider esoteric community is also impacted by behavior in this community. Sticking our collective heads in the sand will not alter that fact.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06825394799718597885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-21496834409024244012013-02-11T08:48:44.792-08:002013-02-11T08:48:44.792-08:00Proofreading and editing are two entirely differen...Proofreading and editing are two entirely different animals.<br /><br />But this does sound right up your alley, Morgan. You have the skills and the practical insight to do the job, from what I have observed.<br /><br />Do it!S.V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14485713664230077664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-82798464355764148722013-02-11T08:36:38.865-08:002013-02-11T08:36:38.865-08:00Care Frater Morgan,
All kidding aside, I am serio...Care Frater Morgan,<br /><br />All kidding aside, I am serious about offering you a job editing the Ritual Magic Manual. Please contact me via private email and lets seriously discuss terms.<br /><br />It is a win win proposition. You get the bill collectors off your back and even have the money to come to the conclave.<br /><br />The sectarians in our community who have been moving heaven and earth unsuccessfully trying the isolate the Alpha Omega over the past two decades will not like this...<br />But then again, are they paying your bills?<br /><br />David GriffinImperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-50424839757768118262013-02-10T18:06:41.434-08:002013-02-10T18:06:41.434-08:00Care Frater Morgan,
The old saying goes "put...Care Frater Morgan,<br /><br />The old saying goes "put your money where your mouth is." Thank you. I will. Morgan, I am calling your bluff and hiring you as a paid editor of the Ritual Magic Manual so you no longer have that weak excuse.<br /><br />Let's see what other excuse you will dream up now for the "review" claim of the book being "riddled" with errors you posted all over the net.<br /><br />It is now up to you to prove that your review was not just more sectarian sniping by providing a complete list of the errors you can actually find!<br /><br />At the same time, this also takes away the excuse of "bill collectors" for not coming to the Conclave.<br /><br />In every poker game, once in a while a bluff gets called. I am calling your bluff now.<br /><br />Let's see what cards you really have.<br /><br />David GriffinImperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-26469095536488559772013-02-10T17:58:18.624-08:002013-02-10T17:58:18.624-08:00Care Frater Morgan,
Creeping sectarianism is also...Care Frater Morgan,<br /><br />Creeping sectarianism is also indicated in repeated remarks about how the Alpha Omega allegedly treats "authors." <br /><br />TRUTH: ALL authors are welcome to publish in the Journal of the Golden Dawn Research Center. We also do not backhandedly exclude authors by advertising that we use proceeds of the Journal to legally attack other Golden Dawn orders either.<br /><br />Or are you referring to the Alpha Omega defending its reputation on Amazon in response to defamation by Nick Farrell in his latest book spreading malicious and false rumors of the alleged existence of a "contemporary Alpha Omega political and religious personality CULT?"<br /><br />TRUTH: You conveniently overlook the way that you and other Golden Dawn orders and authors attacked the Ritual Magic Manual on-line. In your case, you falsely claimed that the book is riddled with errors, and posted this defamation all across the internet. When challenged to substantiate this, the only example you could come up with was that the Eucharist rite says "East" in all four cardinal directions. <br /><br />Riddled? Hardly.<br /><br />I remind you of this not to wag a finger, but only to point our how sectarian sniping must end on ALL sides.<br /><br />The time has come as a community to put sectarian sniping behind us and to build true and lasting harmony instead.<br /><br />Breaking bread together at the Conclave is a step in the right direction.<br /><br />This is why members of ALL Golden Dawn orders are welcome at the Conclave.<br /><br />By the way, it is quite OK simply to say "no thanks," without sectarian excuses.<br /><br />David GriffinImperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-27986255112637203932013-02-10T17:47:35.874-08:002013-02-10T17:47:35.874-08:00Care Frater Morgan,
Why so melodramatic? Can you...Care Frater Morgan, <br /><br />Why so melodramatic? Can you really not just let it go? The lawsuit was settled FIVE YEARS AGO and the other party posted 5 years ago that it was all in the past. Why not take their advice and put it there. No one is falling for the old "demonize the Alpha Omega" game any longer anyway.<br /><br />I remain, as always, willing to break bread with anyone in the Golden Dawn community. Unlike those heavily invested in perpetuating sectarian strife in our community, the Alpha Omega is non-sectarian and ecumenical.<br /><br />You guys probably will not come, but you are welcome at the Conclave in any case. And not because we need any sort of acceptance or recognition by you, but because we are truly non-sectarian and ecumenical.<br /><br />The more time that passes, the entire Golden Dawn community is clearly seeing through those who refuse to let it go and move on. Smoke and mirrors can no longer hide those who continue to perpetuate sectarian strife in our community from being seen clearly for their sectarianism.<br /><br />David GriffinImperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-17760335276992932952013-02-10T17:42:52.906-08:002013-02-10T17:42:52.906-08:00With the exception of the sectarianism in our comm...With the exception of the sectarianism in our community perpetuated by the divisive, so-called "Legal Defense Fund," I think Kraig's Book of Rituals idea is a wonderful one. <br /><br />What really shows the difference between one Golden Dawn and another though, is that Kraig and his order have made it clear they are mainly interested in making writers.<br /><br />In the Alpha Omega, we don't have anything against writers, but we are not out to make writers though either...<br /><br />In the Alpha Omega ...<br />We make Magicians!Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.com