tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post4161850451533779175..comments2023-09-01T10:08:28.177-07:00Comments on The Golden Dawn Blog: Golden Dawn Scandal: Nick Farrell Abandons Golden DawnImperator David Griffinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-31183858683509957022014-01-13T07:28:14.161-08:002014-01-13T07:28:14.161-08:00All this is really unfortunateAll this is really unfortunatejp. BIDJAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-30289898616958276332014-01-08T18:26:38.401-08:002014-01-08T18:26:38.401-08:00Guys, I don't belong to GD tradition. I even d...Guys, I don't belong to GD tradition. I even don't do Magick. <br />Is my vision on magic outside of GD tradition less valid? I have two followers, my wife and our dog. No idea who will join me next.<br />Mr.Farrel?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-17648558628123930152014-01-08T04:19:31.164-08:002014-01-08T04:19:31.164-08:00I've added Dr. Jeeves to the subject line and ...I've added Dr. Jeeves to the subject line and re-sent...Dr. Jeevesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-81803949830721489362014-01-07T18:56:55.602-08:002014-01-07T18:56:55.602-08:00Then again, I am looking for an email from Dr. Jee...Then again, I am looking for an email from Dr. Jeeves. Should I look under something else?Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-83400864876856509642014-01-07T18:55:36.729-08:002014-01-07T18:55:36.729-08:00What is most concerning is that I have not even re...What is most concerning is that I have not even received your email. Please try admin@golden-dawn.eu instead.Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-76520232591149572852014-01-07T16:09:27.693-08:002014-01-07T16:09:27.693-08:00Ok. I'll wait til all things are go. I take it...Ok. I'll wait til all things are go. I take it from your comment that this has happened before. Someone certainly wants to make the AOs life difficult...Dr. Jeevesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-80584960489505117402014-01-07T14:07:05.200-08:002014-01-07T14:07:05.200-08:00Turns out our mailserver problems are not accident...Turns out our mailserver problems are not accidental. We are under DDOS attack again. They did not manage to take our website down, but they crippled our mailserver. Our programmers are taking countermeasures.Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-90326672179837031622014-01-07T08:41:18.081-08:002014-01-07T08:41:18.081-08:00@Dr. Jeeves,
I have looked, but not found your mai...@Dr. Jeeves,<br />I have looked, but not found your mail!Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-54310124366077636012014-01-06T19:04:23.215-08:002014-01-06T19:04:23.215-08:00Thank-you! In the meantime I have emailed to the a...Thank-you! In the meantime I have emailed to the address you gave above.Dr. Jeevesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-25887303517556521172014-01-06T11:32:41.338-08:002014-01-06T11:32:41.338-08:00It turns out that the smtp mail from golden-dawn.c...It turns out that the smtp mail from golden-dawn.com has been experiencing serious issues over the past month. Our programming team in India is already on it, and I hope that everything is working perfectly again by the end of the week.<br />Golden-Dawn.Com is an extremely complex website, with on-line teaching faciliteies, curriculum, and members sub-sites in six languages.<br />Due to the complexity of the programming, we end up troubleshooting the site and fixing things rather frequently.<br />I apologize for any inconvenience.Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-61602410461351557792014-01-05T10:17:50.719-08:002014-01-05T10:17:50.719-08:00Thank you for your feedback. We have been having p...Thank you for your feedback. We have been having problems with our autoresponders. I will look into it. Meanwhile, please write directly to admin@golden-dawn.com.Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-45247852187604582052014-01-05T07:48:46.948-08:002014-01-05T07:48:46.948-08:00A propos to communications with HOGD/AO on this si...A propos to communications with HOGD/AO on this site, could you tell me if the "contact us" link Is working? I sent a couple of questions about training two or three weeks ago and didn't get anything back acknowledging receipt of my message. Not that anything was time sensitive, but I just wanted to be sure the message was was received. Dr. Jeevesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-3190036620323278732014-01-01T19:20:46.010-08:002014-01-01T19:20:46.010-08:00Also on that note, I just submitted my application...Also on that note, I just submitted my application and dues payment to your order, David, as a show of solidarity.<br /><br />Much Love to you and all your readers,<br />Christopher BaileyAviOrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10070064727845509260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-80508506773234101322014-01-01T17:25:11.280-08:002014-01-01T17:25:11.280-08:00"NF appears to have merely walked into an imp..."NF appears to have merely walked into an impartial, objective forum which allowed people to ask real questions."<br /><br />This is exactly what happened. Though Mr. Pallini may have been a bit rough to start. I think this would have shook itself out as we tried to calm him down. This is what happened in fact, as you all can see by Mr. Pallini's apology.<br /><br />Christopher BaileyAviOrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10070064727845509260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-86338839921891881092014-01-01T14:43:18.096-08:002014-01-01T14:43:18.096-08:00Again, since my membership has been denied in the ...Again, since my membership has been denied in the Facebook group in question, I have no first hand way of knowing what actually happenned. My remarks here are based purely on the limited data kindly provided by Mr. Baily above.Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-88984748682190043692014-01-01T14:36:41.674-08:002014-01-01T14:36:41.674-08:00There is one thing that is still unclear to me. Wa...There is one thing that is still unclear to me. Was Nick Farrell actually attacked by anonymous trolls over on Facebook?<br /><br />From what I read above, NF appears to have merely walked into an impartial, objective forum which allowed people to ask real questions. It also looks like the moderators were not willing to support Farrell and Scarborough in what appears to be an attempt to divert attention from the questions rather than answer them by attacking those posing the questions.<br /><br />Maybe now we can finally get down to discussing real positions on very real aspects of the Golden Dawn. Over the past years, I have gone to great length to expound on the positions that the Alpha Omega holds. The post-modernists have still never clearly stated what their positions actually are. Thus the public remains stuck an a nebulous fog about the very real differences between one Golden Dawn order and the other.<br /><br />What is, for example, the position of Sam Scaroborough's order on segregation? Do they allow Thelemites, as well as Pagans, Jews, Muslims, and Christians in their Second Order? This is just one example of many things the public has s right to know.<br /><br />From what I gather, Nick Farrell's position on the Golden Dawn is that he is not a part of it, yet likes to make money writing books attacking it, its founders, and profaning its documents.<br /><br />It would be really helpful, for example, if Mr. Farrell would address these apparent inconsistencies and quit evading legitimate questions by using "ad hominem" personal attacks against those who ask inconvenient, albeit legitimate questions.Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-30906558434422757492014-01-01T13:53:49.611-08:002014-01-01T13:53:49.611-08:00I would like to underline a point already made by ...I would like to underline a point already made by Imperator Griffin, namely, that the reactions of NF and others do not stay with topic but attack the person saying them. Classically this is called an "Ad Hominem" argument, whereby rather than answering the argument or objection one attacks the person offering the argument or objection. The problem with Ad Hominem arguments is that they never respond to the objection or argument made. Furthermore, the value of an argument or objection never hinges on the person making it. Consequently Ad Hominem arguments are distractions rather than a part of serious, rational discourse.Dr. Jeevesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-16351292465853595072014-01-01T12:42:07.200-08:002014-01-01T12:42:07.200-08:00I just want to say that I am sorry that this is ha...I just want to say that I am sorry that this is happening. It is... disheartening. There is room for substantive debate, as you have said, that deals with facts. Ideally I would love to see all of the community come together and deal with this by putting principles before personalities. Some folks do this in earnest and this is as it should be. Others hang on to past hurts or perceived slights and only aim to punish, denigrate, and hurt. I would remind your readers, as I am sure they know, that 'healing people heal, hurt people hurt.' If we can begin from a place of compassion for our fellows I think we might be better off.<br /><br />With that said, thank you David, for your reply and you and your groups tireless work on this Great Work, our precious Magnum Opus. It is healing that is needed, and I think that, where there is love... it will find away. <br /><br />As to the questions at play here, I think that you answered the REAL question at the end of your statement:<br /> "It is the diversity of the GD community that is its greatest strength."<br /><br />Beautiful,<br />Christopher<br /><br />"The voice of my higher soul said unto me, Let me enter the Path of Darkness, peradventure thus shall I obtain the Light"AviOrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10070064727845509260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-43713817384955504332014-01-01T09:57:16.811-08:002014-01-01T09:57:16.811-08:00Good idea. Sounds like an interesting discussion t...Good idea. Sounds like an interesting discussion topic.Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-85913250283349874482014-01-01T09:54:33.486-08:002014-01-01T09:54:33.486-08:00OK. Here is my reply.
Sigh.
The above is a perf...OK. Here is my reply. <br /><br />Sigh.<br /><br />The above is a perfect example of what happens when we let our egos derail a discussion. Nick, Sam, and their allies have for years accused anyone who disagrees with them in the least of being me, sock puppets, trolls, or Alpha Omega agents.<br /><br />This is just a rhetorical strategy to avoid answering uncomfortable questions.<br /><br />Another strategy is making so much noise criticising me or the Alpha Omega with some pretty serious misrepresentations, while at the same time barring any right of refutation from either the AO or me.<br /><br />How sad. Behind all of the heated passion, all I really see here are two questions that seem fair enough and easy enough to answer:<br /><br />1. What is the difference between Nick's new publication and Pat Zalewksi's work. I still can't fish out a straight answer to this question out of the above passionate quotes, except that Nick is publishing unedited versions of rituals previously published by Zalewksi.<br /><br />2. What is really Nick's Golden Dawn background? This seems to be the question that really caused passions to run high. A sensitive nerve seems to have been touched. From what I have read elsewhere, Nick was never initiated in Whare Ra as he now claims, but instead was initiated in the OTR, a completely separate order with a couple of crochety old geezers who used to belong to Whare Ra hanging out there "remembering the good old days."<br /><br />What I don't get is why Nick doesn't just say:<br /><br />"No, I was never initiated in Whare Ra but was initiated in OTR where a couple of ex Whare Ra members were still hanging around."<br /><br />or<br /><br />"Sure what I am publishing is similar to what Pt has previously published. I think there are differences though that make this book worth publishing."<br /><br />In any case, I recommend our readers to buy Nick's new book, if for no other reason than we all know how hard it is today to make ends meet living in Italy. Nick deserves to make a living as much as all of us.<br /><br />Imagine a world where we can all engage in civil discussion and stick to discussing factual matters and our differences in position about them.<br /><br />It would be nice to see more legitimate debate and less name calling.<br /><br />I am sure Nick is a very nice person and we might even like one another should we ever get the chance to actually meet. Sure, we have entirely different approaches to the Golden Dawn, but so what? It is the diversity of the GD community that is its greatest strength.Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-85204435861063421492014-01-01T09:34:03.459-08:002014-01-01T09:34:03.459-08:00i am beginning to wonder if any of these cross pos...i am beginning to wonder if any of these cross posts will not need to be redacted for contractual reasons. Here is the next bit from Christopher, cleaned up of mentioning unmentionable people:<br /><br />"Samuel Scarborough: Jeff can you name a group that provides "real training" as you put it?<br /><br />Jeff Pallini: BOTA, SOL, and SIL to name a few.<br /><br />Nick Farrell: Not your own order? One of which you say did not give me proper magical training... you see you are getting hung up by your own lies now<br /><br />Jeff Pallini: Nick Farrell I was referring specifically to your Golden Dawm training - I even stated you learned path workings in the SOL. But you were never a 0=0 neophyte of BOTA where the GD rituals are taught. Your only GD training ( or rather lack thereof ) is from the XXXXs.<br /><br />Nick Farrell: And Whare Ra<br /><br />Jeff Pallini : You were never initiated into Whare Ra that is obvios by your profound lack of understanding of the basic rituals. Regardless I am getting tired of continually repeating myself while a bunch of clowns take turns asking the same thing over and over again. Good luck with your MOAA and publications!<br /><br />Jeff Pallini: You guys are right and I am wrong for getting angry. I am sorry though Nick Farrell left without answering any questions and continues to deny a number of crrtain facts. Pop over and read his latest blog where he is using the very same troll tactics he accuses others of. For example, on his latest blog he continues to swear that he never said the Banner of the West should not be in the East in the 1=10 but go ahead and read page 111 of Mathers last secret REVISED and see for yourself ( he really is delusional in a scary way ). His whole objective is to tear down Mathers to make himself look smarter but he doesn't know even the basics about the GD. I am a lowly 2=9 struggling with anger when I see fraud and lies. I promise to try and do better but it doesn't help to have 3 or 4 people gang up on me here yesterday. Where is all the love? One clarification, I do believe the SOL is a great occult correspondence school where you can learn solid material but their new ritual work does NOT come from Butler. Butler had another Esoteric School for ritual work and only passed on the correspondence lessons to the SOL so they recuited Godard to form new ritual groups and this has absolutely nothing to do with the GD. It is o.k, to be a student and still learning but it is a dangerous to yourself and others to not know what you are doing. Please learn from someone that does!<br /><br />Christopher Bailey: Jeff, thank you for your apology. Your side is much better served without the vitriol, as is Nick's. I think that if this thread had evolved devoid of these things, it would have been very enlightening to the rest of us. It's about progress, not perfection, and I wish each and every ONE of you luck in your progress."Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-55203378581733523682014-01-01T09:26:48.226-08:002014-01-01T09:26:48.226-08:00I apologise that I have to keep deleting Christoph...I apologise that I have to keep deleting Christopher's comments, redacting them, and reposting them due to contractual obligations. This puts this whole mess a bit out of order. Hopefully our readers can still piece it together.<br /><br />Christopher Baily wrote:<br /><br />"Nick Farrell: Well you did have a go at David Griffin but poor Jeff is not David Griffin is he? I mean David would be man enough to face people.<br /><br />Nick Farrell: David would also never be dumb enough to get into such a trollish argument<br /><br />Jeff Pallini: Samuel Scarborough you being an initiate of the XXXX does not make you a GD initiate no matter if they trademark the name or not. Regardie had no training as solistes or any other office. He could not have initiated anyone - period.<br /><br />Nick Farrell: He [meaning you, David] is very sensitive about the fact he has to call himself by so many initials.<br /><br />Jeff Pallini: Regardie was an editor and discraced the entire tradition by publishing the rituals.<br /><br />Nick Farrell: ahhhh so you are David Griffin's order... and yet you did not follow your leaders orders to burn my book you read the rituals.., and broke your oath to David.<br /><br />Samuel Scarborough: what I found more disgraceful to the GD tradition was publishing video of a really sloppy performance of a GD ceremony that really showed lack of training.<br /><br />Jeff Pallini: Because of regardie we have clowns running around calling themselves the GD self taught out of books.<br /><br />Nick Farrell: yeah or sleeping with people and getting grades without having to sit exams<br /><br />Nick Farrell: But your chief got his grades from Regardie's student Jeff...<br /><br />Nick Farrell: so if you complain about regardie you are complaining about your chiefs qualifications. AO is dependant on Regardie grades from 0=0 to 6=5 and the 7=4 from Burke via Robert Word.<br /><br />Nick Farrell: Well it is amusing that Jeff is slagging off me for having a XXX connection when his own chief gained most of his qualifications from that same order. I would be really cross if I were David"Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-16123836361627115532014-01-01T09:17:44.268-08:002014-01-01T09:17:44.268-08:00The 3d Rail wrote the following. I had to delete t...The 3d Rail wrote the following. I had to delete the original comment and redact it below as the post mentioned persons that must not appear on any AO blogs, etc. due to our contractual agreement:<br /><br />"The way it occured to me was that Nick seemed to think one of the commentators was a 'troll' or 'sock puppet' for your organization. Truth to tell, it seemed to me that this individual *was* being a bit evasive when it came to answering some questions. Though, he did intimate that this had something to do with a worry about breaking an oath. <br /><br />Here is the copy paste of the relvant bits, this maybe difficult to follow. I apologize: <br /><br />Me in reference to Farrel's new book,<br /><br />Christopher Bailey: how does this differ from Pat's project?<br /><br />Jeff Pallini: The 6=5 and 7=4 whare ra rituals have been published for years ( minus a couple paragraphs of the 6=5 oaths ). The originals can be found all over the back channel of the internet. Just another scam to make money on what could have been freely uploaded to a website.<br /><br />Samuel Scarborough: Christopher Bailey - Pat's book that contains the Whare Ra 6=5 and 7=4 ceremonies were heavily edited, reworded, and even redacted by Christopher Hyatt. Whole elements of them are incorrect. According to the blurb that Nick has released on his book is that he is going to put out the complete and unedited versions of those ceremonies along with the associated 6=5 papers. Sorry Jeff Pallini the already published Whare Ra ceremonies of 6=5 and 7=4 are nowhere complete, and there are more than just a few lines missing from them. Nor are they readily available on the internet, back channels or otherwise. What I am seeing here is a lot of inappropriate hostility towards someone that you do not know. If you are going to make claims, then please substantiate them.<br /><br />Jeff Pallini: Samuel Scarborough you are also unfairly selecting single points of my argument for example Nick never claimed the 0=0 from Whare Ra but we all saw him dance around the 0=0 neophyte BOTA claim. I am glad we both agree that Nick could not have gotten any GD training at SOL and Godard. He also only made it to the initial OTR outer court degrees and I assume you agree they are not GD either. So it remains that Nick' s only GD training is from the XXX and by his own admission he never made it to tham. That is fine but there is no reason to puff yourself up just to try and sell books. The dribble he writes as commentaries in mathers last secret speaks clearly regarding his lack of understanding."Imperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-39333142834252036532013-12-31T13:50:23.202-08:002013-12-31T13:50:23.202-08:00Nick Farrell: It is just as well david does not co...Nick Farrell: It is just as well david does not come on this group and see you trying to start a GD war after he was so nice to me.... and you slagging off his lineage too sheesh<br /><br />Christopher Bailey: I will not qualify myself with what grade I am or what lineage i belong to. The only thing I wanted to know was how Nick Farrell's project was different from what Pat tried to do. If magic is about the betterment of the self then I have only to hope to transcend the need to bicker and lambast. Please, understand that we have a beautiful tradition in front of us. And that tradition is going to be commented on. I think Regardie's publication of the material actually saved the G:. D:. in many ways.<br /><br />The insulation it has provided has been very effectual in remaining 'secret'. The provision of so much noise to mask the 'signal' or current, if you will, has been a blessing in many ways. Decentralization, in this capacity, is NOT the enemy IMO. When the student is ready, the teacher appears and the 'signal' makes itself known. This is how it happened for me. Best of Luck to all of you and peace find it's way into your hearts, and good luck on this project, Nick.<br /><br />Jeff Pallini: Christopher Bailey, if Regardie did not publish the rituals there would not be so manny wannabes like Nick Farrell out there starting groups without real training. Regarding Zalewski's publication of the 6=5 and 7=4 rituals they were pretty bad too but I don't believe there was an internet back then to upload them to.<br /><br />Christopher Bailey the 'wannabes', as you put it, are the noise in which the signal is embedded. I am fine with this Jeff. There are many paths to the same peak, most choose to read rather than walk. Some, walk these paths and find their own ways. Who am I to begrudge them this journey?<br /><br />Jeff Pallini: Unforunately the wannabes distract students from groups with real training. But perhaps that is a good thing as well.. At least the students will learn what not to do?<br /><br />Christopher Bailey: Not necessarily, Jeff. In many capacities these 'distractions' act as filters. Those who come to the current are meant to be there. Those hung up on the distractions stay on the periphery, but, at the end of the day the thing that matters is that they have expressed the want or need to better themselves.<br /><br />AviOrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10070064727845509260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8814337050017726886.post-48575271769008770012013-12-31T13:29:22.903-08:002013-12-31T13:29:22.903-08:00Nick Farrell: You saw nothing I just simply refuse...Nick Farrell: You saw nothing I just simply refused to play your game... prove that I was not in BOTA please or shut up<br /><br />Nick Farrell: So Jeff you are a member of David Griffin's AO?<br /><br />Jeff Pallini: Keep dancing Nick Farrell we both know as well as BOTA New Zealand Chapter members that Chesterman did not trust you and never let you in.<br /><br />Samuel Scarborough: Nick Farrell, isn't that group with the initials HOGDOOROAO for Heremtic Order of the Golden Dawn Outer Order of the Rosicrucian Order of the Alpha Omega?<br /><br />Nick Farrell: Answer the question.<br /><br />Samuel Scarborough: What I see Jeff Pallini is that you came on here attacking. You have been asked direct questions, and still you act like a troll. There is no rational discussion with the likes of you.<br /><br />Nick Farrell: A rational conversation is when two sides provide information and do not attack another without proof.... so answer the questions and stop being a dickheadAviOrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10070064727845509260noreply@blogger.com